Alaska landing incident SNA

I mean, any airline pilot complaining about other people and their “good deals” is some serious pot/kettle action

Always amusing when legacy pilots, who make 6 figures a year to work 10 days a month sitting down in ergonomic, climate controlled flight decks, think other people have plush jobs.

I do think it's true that most office jobs will be automated away in the coming year, but I don't see how whether a job can be done remotely has much bearing on whether or not it can be replaced with automation.

It's also bizarre to me how remote work has become this culture war for a lot of people. As someone who doesn't have that type of job I couldn't care less if office workers would rather work remotely.
 
He’s just being a pandering ninnimungus.



Be honest, for those partaking in personal attacking. How many of YOU are directly benefiting from a spouse, doing WFH and being home so much that 1. You’re used to it, 2. Kids are used to it, 3. And you realize they’d quit that job as opposed to go back to the office full time, 4. Saving that gas and lunch money, while STILL demanding the equivalent salary of going to work in a large city, whereas you don’t live in that large city/downtown location.


My FIL loves WFH. Everytime I see him though, he comes downstairs a lot. “It’s a break.” Dang, you get a lot of breaks!

But he works for Ford. And Ford has been cleaning shop and wreaking havoc on employees every 6 months. Mass layoffs. So far he’s survived. But weird…. He goes to the office 5 times a week now. It’s almost as if he’s doing all he can to survive a future cut. I’ll be honest, if I was a boss, I’d keep the guys I can actually physically see and physically work with. That guy insisting on 4-5 days home remote, would be the one cut.
 
I imagine many of you would be unemployed, but that’s not important. Progress!!

That's actually an interesting point. I've seen a lot of people on here argue for airline reregulation, saying that air travel should be a luxury like it was before deregulation and often outraged that Spirit and Frontier's customers can afford to fly. But if this actually happened there would almost certainly be less demand for pilots.

I can see the case for re-regulation given how often taxpayers have ended up bailing out airlines since deregulation, but it should definitely be regulated at current airfares rather than trying to make air travel exclusive like it was pre-deregulation. And it's largely a moot point anyway since I don't think airline regulation would pass through Congress any time soon.
 
I mean, any airline pilot complaining about other people and their “good deals” is some serious pot/kettle action



Why?

I’m not WFH. And I work a job with a union association that is NOT a public or government union. It’s a private company, in that my pay raises and benefits don’t come at the expense of taxpayers.

Yeah, I know where’s this is going…


And for the record, and you can search JC history, I was only for the first PSP. March 2020 we had no idea what was gonna happen and the govt told people to lockdown and stop traveling. I called the second round of PSP Oct 2020 unnecessary and said I’d be okay with 1/4 of the industry being laid off, because PSP is wrong.
 

However, research has consistently shown that workers can be just as productive—if not more so—from home, than at a desk next to noisy peers. McKinsey analyzed 2,000 tasks and 800 job types and found that around a third of all work could be done remotely without any loss of productivity. ”


A third of work can be done without losing productivity. The implication being 2/3 of work is losing productivity? Ouch.






“ Still, there’s a discrepancy in how productive remote working is depending on who you ask: Employees generally think they’re more productive while working from home, but managers tend to disagree. This could be because, as reported in Fortune, workers add their commute into their mental calculation of how productive they are, whereas managers don’t. ”


Of course . No surprise there. And like Richman said, of course people who are being polled are in the subject group that heavily favors it.
 
This is hilarious because the original direction of this conversation was about skilled, experienced manual labor getting marginalized and cheapened by stingy ass companies trying to save money.

Which, as a aviation industry grizzled veteran, sounds soooooo familiar.
 
That's actually an interesting point. I've seen a lot of people on here argue for airline reregulation, saying that air travel should be a luxury like it was before deregulation and often outraged that Spirit and Frontier's customers can afford to fly. But if this actually happened there would almost certainly be less demand for pilots.

I can see the case for re-regulation given how often taxpayers have ended up bailing out airlines since deregulation, but it should definitely be regulated at current airfares rather than trying to make air travel exclusive like it was pre-deregulation. And it's largely a moot point anyway since I don't think airline regulation would pass through Congress any time soon.
It's okay. The genie has left the bottle. I'm unhappy about flying anymore because it sucks. I'm old, but not "that" old and my parents would occasionally put my brother and I on flights to see my grandma. I'm not sure if my dad was just kicking us out of the house for a couple of weeks so he and my mom could "live their best life", just making sure we looked presentable to my grandma when we landed in Redding in a Chieftan or if he still respected the old school "dress up to go to the airport" mindset he grew up with, but my brother and I had to wear collared shirts and slacks and absolutely be polite (our Sunday best was in our luggage, so we could go to church with grandma). I don't have a kid, if I did I probably wouldn't let them fly without some supervision, not because I have no faith in you all, I'd be afraid of the passengers. And that's why it sucks.
 
Polling people whose good deal working from home depends on them still working from home supported by polling results seems….ah, to have suspect accuracy.

McKinsey isn’t a polling company.

And yeah, we had fast internet even in 2006 and 2007.

You’re right, I apologize.

Your experience in collaborative technology from…hold on, checking calendar…17 years ago is totally relevant to the present day.

For fun, here’s my cutting edge phone from 2006.

1694735924032.jpeg


Things have changed *so much*, even in the last 5-10 years.
 
McKinsey isn’t a polling company.



You’re right, I apologize.

Your experience in collaborative technology from…hold on, checking calendar…17 years ago is totally relevant to the present day.

For fun, here’s my cutting edge phone from 2006.

View attachment 73728

Things have changed *so much*, even in the last 5-10 years.
The company I worked for had a deal with Blackberry because it was "more secure", little did they know I carried my iphone in another pocket. I'm certainly not proud, in fact I'm embarrassed, but I used to rock two phones, one in a holster and another in my pocket. Towards the end the last generation Blackberry looked like just any other smartphone, I've no idea what they're doing now, I was happy to turn in my laptop and phone after I quit. Both were clean as a whistle, never used either for anything not work related. My personal phone and the iPad I dragged around on the road though...
 
Be honest, for those partaking in personal attacking. How many of YOU are directly benefiting from a spouse, doing WFH and being home so much that 1. You’re used to it, 2. Kids are used to it, 3. And you realize they’d quit that job as opposed to go back to the office full time, 4. Saving that gas and lunch money, while STILL demanding the equivalent salary of going to work in a large city, whereas you don’t live in that large city/downtown location.


My FIL loves WFH. Everytime I see him though, he comes downstairs a lot. “It’s a break.” Dang, you get a lot of breaks!

But he works for Ford. And Ford has been cleaning shop and wreaking havoc on employees every 6 months. Mass layoffs. So far he’s survived. But weird…. He goes to the office 5 times a week now. It’s almost as if he’s doing all he can to survive a future cut. I’ll be honest, if I was a boss, I’d keep the guys I can actually physically see and physically work with. That guy insisting on 4-5 days home remote, would be the one cut.
If you’re accusing me of a personal attack on you then you’re incorrect.
My wife works for the same company that she had been at for years at the start of the pandemic. Yes, my wife works from home two days a week now and the others she is in the office, during the first two years of the pandemic she working from home 100%, her workload was dramatically increased because of her productivity while working from home ( free from distractions, interruptions from co-workers, bosses, having to sit in on many unnecessary meetings just in case someone might have a question about one of the proposals she was working on, time wasting team building exercises, etc). Then they started back to one day a week in the office, not so bad when I’m at home, but quite a bit more on her plate when I’m on the road, so on her office days she would get up really early, do an hour or two of work, then get herself and our daughter ready, drop the kid at school, commute in work a full day, go pick the kid up from her after school STEM program and head home. Now that it is two days in the office her workload has increased yet again and she spends a couple more hours of working from home after picking our daughter up to make up for the inefficiencies of the commuting and dealing with family life due to the extra workload added when she was able to dedicate her entire work day to work.
My wife’s office is in the exact same location it was in at the beginning of the COVID lockdowns and our address is the same as it was then, I know it is easy to assume that other people’s reasons for resistance to more days in a commercial building are not only all the same, but the same as your reasons would be, but that is a lazy way of analyzing the situation.

If executives and managers want to wax nostalgic about the days they were able to drive efficiencies and productivity ( at least as far as their opinion goes ) due to being able to see and be seen by their subordinates then fine, I guess they need that emotionally or something.
If companies need to justify real estate holdings, leases, etc… fine, say so!
If companies are trying to poke people with a stick to get them on the road more, buying gas, eating at restaurants or the company cafeteria, driving car sales, interstate and intrastate travel by air, train, car, hotel revenue increases , etc then say so.
But the short simple “ they’re just lazy “ talk is absolutely BS for the majority of work from home employees.


In the event of TL/DR I’ll break it down.
In many cases such as my wife’s,
Many companies were more respectful of their peoples time away from the office and had an accepted and expected productivity level. Many people had their workload added to while working from home because they lost a lot of commuting, lunchtime, unnecessary time sink issues that go with being in the office, now there is pushback because they will expect the same productivity from people that you were getting when they could wake up, grab a cup of coffee and get right to working.
 
If you’re accusing me of a personal attack on you then you’re incorrect.
My wife works for the same company that she had been at for years at the start of the pandemic. Yes, my wife works from home two days a week now and the others she is in the office, during the first two years of the pandemic she working from home 100%, her workload was dramatically increased because of her productivity while working from home ( free from distractions, interruptions from co-workers, bosses, having to sit in on many unnecessary meetings just in case someone might have a question about one of the proposals she was working on, time wasting team building exercises, etc). Then they started back to one day a week in the office, not so bad when I’m at home, but quite a bit more on her plate when I’m on the road, so on her office days she would get up really early, do an hour or two of work, then get herself and our daughter ready, drop the kid at school, commute in work a full day, go pick the kid up from her after school STEM program and head home. Now that it is two days in the office her workload has increased yet again and she spends a couple more hours of working from home after picking our daughter up to make up for the inefficiencies of the commuting and dealing with family life due to the extra workload added when she was able to dedicate her entire work day to work.
My wife’s office is in the exact same location it was in at the beginning of the COVID lockdowns and our address is the same as it was then, I know it is easy to assume that other people’s reasons for resistance to more days in a commercial building are not only all the same, but the same as your reasons would be, but that is a lazy way of analyzing the situation.

If executives and managers want to wax nostalgic about the days they were able to drive efficiencies and productivity ( at least as far as their opinion goes ) due to being able to see and be seen by their subordinates then fine, I guess they need that emotionally or something.
If companies need to justify real estate holdings, leases, etc… fine, say so!
If companies are trying to poke people with a stick to get them on the road more, buying gas, eating at restaurants or the company cafeteria, driving car sales, interstate and intrastate travel by air, train, car, hotel revenue increases , etc then say so.
But the short simple “ they’re just lazy “ talk is absolutely BS for the majority of work from home employees.


In the event of TL/DR I’ll break it down.
In many cases such as my wife’s,
Many companies were more respectful of their peoples time away from the office and had an accepted and expected productivity level. Many people had their workload added to while working from home because they lost a lot of commuting, lunchtime, unnecessary time sink issues that go with being in the office, now there is pushback because they will expect the same productivity from people that you were getting when they could wake up, grab a cup of coffee and get right to working.



No offense, it isn’t a lazy analysis. It’s fact. You, your wife, and kid(s) were doing the full 5 day thing up until March 2020. And you were used to it and made it work.

What changed WAS doing full time WFH. At that point, it changed ALL the dynamics of how you handled family life. It’s like an opioid addiction. Wouldn’t even have conceidered it a possibility. But something happened (pandemic) an opioid option was forced mostly everywhere (WFH), and now everyone is addicted to it. Kicking that habit is extremely hard. But again, up until March 2020 they weren’t addicted.




There’s always an option of quiet quitting. Work just 8-5 and no more. Let’s see how far that gets an employee.

The main problem right now is an EXTREMELY robust hiring environment. People have the option to just quit and get hired at 5 different places at once. It was never like this before. But like all good things, it won’t last. I highly doubt we’ll see permanent WFH. Some jobs will stay WFH (just as some were prior to the pandemic). But by large, people will look at this time in the future and will be reminiscing the “good” years.
 
The company I worked for had a deal with Blackberry because it was "more secure", little did they know I carried my iphone in another pocket. I'm certainly not proud, in fact I'm embarrassed, but I used to rock two phones, one in a holster and another in my pocket. Towards the end the last generation Blackberry looked like just any other smartphone, I've no idea what they're doing now, I was happy to turn in my laptop and phone after I quit. Both were clean as a whistle, never used either for anything not work related. My personal phone and the iPad I dragged around on the road though...
Blackberrys were more secure because they used their own email servers. They had a brief spark of their old glory when Sony was hacked by the North Koreans because of that move "The Interview" with Seth Rogen.


These days their QNX OS runs things like Ford's SYNC 4.
 
I see TL;DR now and I reflexively reach over my left shoulder to grab the printed engine failure procedure from the R/O seat. Peak generational cognitive dissonance!
 
I personally have no issue with WFH, I do it part time as well. But what i do sometimes take issue with is tech companies paying WFH employees Bay Area or Seattle wages, who then exfiltrate to my island and drive real estate through the roof. It has benefitted me i guess in the ludicrous inflation of value of my own home, but at the end of the day, 1) those wages were designed to be competitive in a wildly inflated world that I didn’t choose to reside in, and 2) furthermore, they are the lead characters in an industry that is actively destroying our society and will probably end humanity
 
I personally have no issue with WFH, I do it part time as well. But what i do sometimes take issue with is tech companies paying WFH employees Bay Area or Seattle wages, who then exfiltrate to my island and drive real estate through the roof. It has benefitted me i guess in the ludicrous inflation of value of my own home, but at the end of the day, 1) those wages were designed to be competitive in a wildly inflated world that I didn’t choose to reside in, and 2) furthermore, they are the lead characters in an industry that is actively destroying our society and will probably end humanity
This is why I left Montana and moved back to Colorado. If I'm paying ridiculous real estate prices then there is no way I'm commuting. In 2021 the median home price in BZN was 840K, now it is 1 million. Even in Billings where I was living at the time was 430k, and that is the ugly industrial part of the state.
 
No offense, it isn’t a lazy analysis. It’s fact. You, your wife, and kid(s) were doing the full 5 day thing up until March 2020. And you were used to it and made it work.

What changed WAS doing full time WFH. At that point, it changed ALL the dynamics of how you handled family life. It’s like an opioid addiction. Wouldn’t even have conceidered it a possibility. But something happened (pandemic) an opioid option was forced mostly everywhere (WFH), and now everyone is addicted to it. Kicking that habit is extremely hard. But again, up until March 2020 they weren’t addicted.




There’s always an option of quiet quitting. Work just 8-5 and no more. Let’s see how far that gets an employee.

The main problem right now is an EXTREMELY robust hiring environment. People have the option to just quit and get hired at 5 different places at once. It was never like this before. But like all good things, it won’t last. I highly doubt we’ll see permanent WFH. Some jobs will stay WFH (just as some were prior to the pandemic). But by large, people will look at this time in the future and will be reminiscing the “good” years.
Again, you’re wrong. You couldn’t possibly think that your opinion is correct for everybody, but somehow you claim to, that just doesn’t make sense.
It is in fact not easier on us in all aspects with her working from home, it has been quite an adjustment, actually. I understand, though, maybe you’re just one of those people that can’t accept the fact that they don’t know everything.
 
No offense, it isn’t a lazy analysis. It’s fact. You, your wife, and kid(s) were doing the full 5 day thing up until March 2020. And you were used to it and made it work.

Why in the world do you insist on telling people why they feel or believe what they do? Especially when your individual experience with a situation is incredibly limited?

I’d never tell another company what they should do regarding work location because even within my own industry with comparable sized corporations, there’s major difference in existing culture, procedures etc.
 
Why in the world do you insist on telling people why they feel or believe what they do? Especially when your individual experience with a situation is incredibly limited?

I’d never tell another company what they should do regarding work location because even within my own industry with comparable sized corporations, there’s major difference in existing culture, procedures etc.
I learned a new word today: ultracrepidarian

(A tip of the hat to @Cherokee_Cruiser for being an inspiration to increase my vocabulary. ;) )
 
I personally have no issue with WFH, I do it part time as well. But what i do sometimes take issue with is tech companies paying WFH employees Bay Area or Seattle wages, who then exfiltrate to my island and drive real estate through the roof. It has benefitted me i guess in the ludicrous inflation of value of my own home, but at the end of the day, 1) those wages were designed to be competitive in a wildly inflated world that I didn’t choose to reside in, and 2) furthermore, they are the lead characters in an industry that is actively destroying our society and will probably end humanity

That is the main reason that San Diego has boomed out of control since Covid. I moved here two years ago, rent has risen 40% since I moved here, now over taking the Bay Area in cost of living (I’m not known for impeccable timing). That is because a ton of bay techies took their WFH gig and wages and moved from the bay. My condo complex has three people from the Bay Area that work from home besides the occasional trip back to do techie meeting stuff. The last one to move in now pays 3,800 a month for a one BR. Not too many local San Diegans can afford that price on a one BR
 
That is the main reason that San Diego has boomed out of control since Covid. I moved here two years ago, rent has risen 40% since I moved here, now over taking the Bay Area in cost of living (I’m not known for impeccable timing). That is because a ton of bay techies took their WFH gig and wages and moved from the bay. My condo complex has three people from the Bay Area that work from home besides the occasional trip back to do techie meeting stuff. The last one to move in now pays 3,800 a month for a one BR. Not too many local San Diegans can afford that price on a one BR

Real estate everywhere has spiraled out of control, in relative terms, even in places like South Dakota, Iowa, Alabama, Mississippi, and especially the western states like Wyoming.
 
Back
Top