Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Any guesses as to if there will be more bids, or is this it u til the hiring cycle? (Q4ish)
Alaska Hawaiian Merger Serious Version
- Thread starter alaskadrifter
- Start date
///AMG
Well-Known Member
No guesses and possibly the most inconsequential thing in my life at the moment.......no plans to move, and I wouldn't be displaced
CoffeeIcePapers
Well-Hung Member
I have a small head, so it makes me look like a 6 year old wearing a pilot Halloween costume.
bimmerphile
MCAS Meat Inhibition Logic
are there benefits to being in the left seat during SLI?
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BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
We are going start 2025 with less aircraft then we had in 2019. The first have of 2025 we will have more aircraft retired than delivered.
We won’t hire in 2025
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
122X was the seniority number of the most junior pilot on property to upgrade this bid.
You won’t upgrade until year 10 at this rate. The senior FOs have realized that being able to upgrade isn’t something they can do whenever they feel like. Or when little Johnny has gone off to collage. Or whenever.
They missed the boat. Bigly. And they won’t have another opportunity for at least a year but most likely two. So the more senior FOs will be at the front of the line for the next bids and those are years away.
Skåning
Well-Known Member
Naw you're wrong. Senior FOs are going to stay right where they are, the left seat is just not that big of deal for most. They are making $300k a year when junior captains are making $400k. That pay/QOL just isn't worth the ego boost and the new rates make it good dough regardless.
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
So what were the seniority numbers of the people who managed to upgrade on this bid? What were their dates of hire?
12XX was the most junior. Over 1000 numbers senior to me. Check out that date of hire and tell me how many years it will take if one wishes to upgrade.
Keep in mind we have a very real possibility of closing out 2025 with less mainline aircraft than 2019. We already accomplished that for 2024.
Skåning
Well-Known Member
Ok now tell me the date of hire for the captains that chose to downgrade. I'll wait.
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
I just tried to log in to the pilot website and ping auth my nutsack. So you'll be waiting for a while.
IIRC the 3 downgrades in SEA had at least a couple of numbers close to my seniority so 2016-18
edit: 2 of the 3 captains that chose to downgrade were within 200 numbers of me which puts them in the 2017 to 2018 beatdown range of:
Have you tried being more senior?
I can't blame them. It's a brutal schedule and the lack of empathy from both the union and the pilots here is perfectly illustrated by @Skåning
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Skåning
Well-Known Member
We know you have a flair for the dramatic but the reality is you have no clue.
Junior Captains:
PDX - 01/2017
LAX - 11/2016
SFO - 01/2019
ANC - 10/2017
SEA - 05/2018
You could have downgraded this bid and made $300k a year as a senior FO. You made your choice. Now live with it.
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
The junior captains such as myself who got in before the lock were either incredibly lucky or stupid depending on how one looks at it. From now on 1200 or better seniority to upgrade. The cookie got taken away long enough for the senior FOs to realize upgrade wont happen whenever they like. Pretty sure 1200 is 10 years plus.
Also don't forget we are shrinking on the 737 side. Plus very high likelihood of fenced off widebodies. This trend will only continue. Anyone stuck flying a 737 has only BA to look to for hope. Peak production is 18 months off at best. By June of 2025 we will have finished retiring 12 900 classics.
The trend is not the junior pilots friend. Upgrades are a decade from hire date at this point and it will get worse until the JCBA is complete and fences expire.
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
Oops never mind. The most junior captain to upgrade, in the last bid was hired over 12 years ago. Barely 4 months off of 13 years.
So a decade is being very generous and would imply some growth. Which is not looking good.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Beef, the reality is you put yourself in a position to take the first upgrade, and have done nothing but complain about being junior. There’s a reason hundreds and hundreds of FOs above you skipped that.
This bid presented a chance for you to downgrade and enjoy the FO gig with a great schedule. You didn’t. So please stop the complaints.
This bid presented a chance for you to downgrade and enjoy the FO gig with a great schedule. You didn’t. So please stop the complaints.
Mergers are like this.
Two airlines, lets call them “tribes” for simplicity.
One tribe has it all figured out. Where the planes are going to go, who is going where, what bases are opening, which bases are closing.
But so does the other tribe, but there are different bases, ideas, opinions on what’s going to happen.
Each tribe bases their opinions on trying to read in-between the lines. Some doom, some gloom, some irrational exuberance about being the biggest, baddest airline in the world, hear me roar.
And this goes for management as well, but they sometimes have it worse because in the world of mergers, “2 + 3 = 4” and someone’s bound to lose because you can have two general managers of logo’d napkin acquisitions.
The merger between Delta and Northwest, while ultimately good, didn’t turn out the way any of the tribes thought it would. There was lots of time wasted, teeth ground-down to the root worry about what was going to happen and, at the end of the day as odd as it sounds, pilots are so low on the list of things the board of directors worry about that they’ll throw out some free pizza in the pilot lounge, play “Rock, Paper, Scissors” to figure out which leader is going to put the homey-looking kitchen smock on and go serve the pilots smoothies and give them super non-specific information to placate and soothe everyone and do what they were going to do in the first place.
In the meantime, speculation is fun. No one knows. Make new friends, bridge the gap, don’t expect the union to form ‘play dates’ with the other side (aka “DO IT YOURSELF”) and cash a check.
Two airlines, lets call them “tribes” for simplicity.
One tribe has it all figured out. Where the planes are going to go, who is going where, what bases are opening, which bases are closing.
But so does the other tribe, but there are different bases, ideas, opinions on what’s going to happen.
Each tribe bases their opinions on trying to read in-between the lines. Some doom, some gloom, some irrational exuberance about being the biggest, baddest airline in the world, hear me roar.
And this goes for management as well, but they sometimes have it worse because in the world of mergers, “2 + 3 = 4” and someone’s bound to lose because you can have two general managers of logo’d napkin acquisitions.
The merger between Delta and Northwest, while ultimately good, didn’t turn out the way any of the tribes thought it would. There was lots of time wasted, teeth ground-down to the root worry about what was going to happen and, at the end of the day as odd as it sounds, pilots are so low on the list of things the board of directors worry about that they’ll throw out some free pizza in the pilot lounge, play “Rock, Paper, Scissors” to figure out which leader is going to put the homey-looking kitchen smock on and go serve the pilots smoothies and give them super non-specific information to placate and soothe everyone and do what they were going to do in the first place.
In the meantime, speculation is fun. No one knows. Make new friends, bridge the gap, don’t expect the union to form ‘play dates’ with the other side (aka “DO IT YOURSELF”) and cash a check.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
On top of that, each individual airline can be more like 3 airlines in a trench coat (certainly the case over here) so all of that you talked about goes exponential
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
When in my last post(s) was I complaining?
Spittin facts dawg
13 year upgrades. Deal with it.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
That guy was junior to me. I’m dealing with it just fine.
The reason it went senior is this was a NO Captain vacancy, just a displacement vacancy for FOs with positions created in SFO. Plus, no bid for potentially a year so yes bidding behavior changed. Once plane deliveries start, it’ll start getting back to mormal.
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
There is zero chance of the staffing outlook changing before 2026 or 2027. It will take much longer for "behavior to change."
13 year upgrade.