Airline pay and Obama

[Hootie]

Yes, Obama actually does control labor wages. We will be getting a 20% pay raise just as soon as the GM labor unions get theirs.

Over the next two years you will just be thankful to have a job that pays 30k and allows for tuna helper purchases and basic shelter.

 

[kellwolf]

Ok, and how did Clinton directly control that?

Financially. As in the was a Democrat (and in the beginning he also has a Dem Congress, too) in office, and my parents had more money in their pockets than under Reagan or either Bush. That was your argument, right? That Dems mean less money in our pockets. Or are you gonna retract that?

Back when Bush was made president in 2000, I had an epiphany and decided to give him a shot. Nice to see the people on the other side are willing to do so with the other team.

I've heard nearly as much doom and gloom since the election was over as I did during the election. It's gotten old, and I'm more or less done with it. Neither side knows what's going to happen, so just shut the hell up. And if Obama fails, the last thing I'm gonna do is apologize for my stance on issues. That's a petty thing to hope someone fails so you can gloat.

 

[kellwolf]

Just something to consider along those lines. If Gore or Kerry was in office instead of Bush, would your family have done better? There is absolutely no way to know that answer. Perhaps it is just too easy to blame the current president. And just maybe it is too hard to blame yourself for not being able to feed your family?

True, but you're arguing from a point that you know we're all gonna be bleeding cash b/c of the Obama admin. You, also, have no way of knowing that.

Your analysis of the airline industry shows a serious lack of knowledge in the history of the industry. I suggest you read up on how many airlines have started and failed in the last 20 years alone. Then get back to us on the whole "we need more airlines" line of thinking. Reality is a nice place to live. You should try it once in a while.

 

[skydog]

Delta 767 captain during Clinton years: $240,000 and about $3,000,000 in retirement

Delta 767 captain during Bush years: $160,000 and no retirement

And if your pay hadn't gone down to $160,000, do you think you would still be earning $240,000? Probably not, because your company would have gone bankrupt and out of business.

 

[BillH]

True, but you're arguing from a point that you know we're all gonna be bleeding cash b/c of the Obama admin. You, also, have no way of knowing that.

Your analysis of the airline industry shows a serious lack of knowledge in the history of the industry. I suggest you read up on how many airlines have started and failed in the last 20 years alone. Then get back to us on the whole "we need more airlines" line of thinking. Reality is a nice place to live. You should try it once in a while.

A nice place to live? Well I am finding Naples, FL to be a very nice place to live...
Why yes, many businesses and airlines have started up and failed. That has always been the case in life since long ago. Life is not fair. The only time you fail is when you stop trying, and expect others to make your own life easier. I am bleeding cash to Sallie Mae. I was going to buy some machine tools to start up my own business on the side, but rather decided that in the name fiscal responsibility, I am going to pay down my Sallie Mae loan.. Man, I am an idiot!!! Obama said he was going to pay off my Sallie Mae loan!!!!

 

[BillH]

Financially. As in the was a Democrat (and in the beginning he also has a Dem Congress, too) in office, and my parents had more money in their pockets than under Reagan or either Bush. That was your argument, right? That Dems mean less money in our pockets. Or are you gonna retract that?

Back when Bush was made president in 2000, I had an epiphany and decided to give him a shot. Nice to see the people on the other side are willing to do so with the other team.

I've heard nearly as much doom and gloom since the election was over as I did during the election. It's gotten old, and I'm more or less done with it. Neither side knows what's going to happen, so just shut the hell up. And if Obama fails, the last thing I'm gonna do is apologize for my stance on issues. That's a petty thing to hope someone fails so you can gloat.

I won't be gloating, I will be too busy trying to fix things.

 

[JoelT]

Well sir, could you explain to me in front of everyone how this industry works? Clearly you must know EXACTLY how it works. I think I understand it far better than you. You made the assumption that I never worked at an airline. You made the assumption that no one at a flight school has ever worked for an airline... Half the instructors are furloughed pilots from the airlines. Anyhow, I am waiting for you to explain to me how the industry works.

Ah, now I get it. So, you are a furloughed airline pilot just wishes everyone else would take a paycut so you could keep your job. If only there were more airlines so you could have a job . I suppose my ten years of airline flying, including four different airlines, five type ratings, Airline Recruiter, Negotiator, Strategic Planning Committee Chairman, Contract Enforcement Volunteer and a former member of the ALPA BOD mean nothing? My eleven month old daughter is more interesting than you so, I'm going to go play patty-cake with her now.

 

[L-16B]

Wow I like how this thread turned into Republican Vs. Democrat...

Being conservative, I'm not pleased with the election at all. But then again, I never really liked either candidate......

Would someone like to explain in detail how the NMB is run? How the positions are appointed? I was talking to an XJT MEC guy at one of our EWR alpa events, and he said that the NMB staff was usually the last thing to be put into place when a new administration comes in. Anyone know why?

On another note - anyone see where Obama was going cut the off shore oil production when he takes office? lame...

 

[BillH]

Ah, now I get it. So, you are a furloughed airline pilot just wishes everyone else would take a paycut so you could keep your job. If only there were more airlines so you could have a job . I suppose my ten years of airline flying, including four different airlines, five type ratings, Airline Recruiter, Negotiator, Strategic Planning Committee Chairman, Contract Enforcement Volunteer and a former member of the ALPA BOD mean nothing? My eleven month old daughter is more interesting than you so, I'm going to go play patty-cake with her now.

No, I am not a furloughed airline pilot. Never said I was, just thought you were making wild assumptions. I sincerely hope that you find your own daughter more interesting than a web board discussion.
If there were more airlines, or less pilots, we'd all be making more money. That is so basic I should not even need to say it.

 

[BillH]

Wow I like how this thread turned into Republican Vs. Democrat...

Being conservative, I'm not pleased with the election at all. But then again, I never really liked either candidate......

Would someone like to explain in detail how the NMB is run? How the positions are appointed? I was talking to an XJT MEC guy at one of our EWR alpa events, and he said that the NMB staff was usually the last thing to be put into place when a new administration comes in. Anyone know why?

On another note - anyone see where Obama was going cut the off shore oil production when he takes office? lame...

Illogical, pathetic, and stupid are better words for it.

 

[wheelsup]

No, I am not a furloughed airline pilot. Never said I was, just thought you were making wild assumptions. I sincerely hope that you find your own daughter more interesting than a web board discussion.
If there were more airlines, or less pilots, we'd all be making more money. That is so basic I should not even need to say it.

If the airlines collectively were making billions per year with 100% load factors and travel demand was inelastic you'd have a leg to stand on. However as it is that is not the case. Adding more airlines in the states won't increase the demand for pilots at all. The only thing that increases the demand for pilots is more people flying and airlines buying more planes.

You can either have

A) Lots of airlines with a small fleet
B) Few airlines with a large fleet

One goes hand in hand with another.

 

[kellwolf]

Would someone like to explain in detail how the NMB is run? How the positions are appointed? I was talking to an XJT MEC guy at one of our EWR alpa events, and he said that the NMB staff was usually the last thing to be put into place when a new administration comes in. Anyone know why?

Here ya go:

The NMB, established in 1934, is composed of three members appointed by the president of the United States, with Senate confirmation. These members must be persons with no past labor or railroad affiliation. No more than two members may have the same political affiliation. Each member is appointed for a term of three years, and each acts as a chairperson on an annual rotation. The board may designate one or more of its members to exercise its functions in mediation proceedings and has the power to administer oaths and affirmations. The board is authorized to appoint experts and assistants to act in any capacity essential to required transactions and can assign or refer any portion of its work or functions to individual members or employees. It also has the authority to provide for salaries and expenditures necessary to complete these actions. (Source: Air Transport Labor Relations)

Here's the current breakdown with dates appointed to the right

Read Van de Water (sworn in 12/11/03)
Elizabeth Dougherty (sworn in 12/8/06)
Harry Hoglander (sworn in 8/6/02)

All three were either confirmed or re-confirmed in 12/06. So, it may be as late as 12/09 for the terms to run out. It might just be that it's one of the last things the president gets around to b/c there's a lot of other stuff going on.

 

[JoelT]

I sincerely hope that you find your own daughter more interesting than a web board discussion.

Janice, I do find her far more interesting and intelligent. Then again, she does have my genes. It is now time for a game of peekaboo.

If there were more airlines, or less pilots, we'd all be making more money. That is so basic I should not even need to say it.

Karen, I agree with you on the "less pilots" part. The "more airlines" part makes even my baby daughter laugh. You do know there is a finite number of seat miles out there? And, there are too many seats right now?

 

[BillH]

Janice, I do find her far more interesting and intelligent. Then again, she does have my genes. It is now time for a game of peekaboo.

Karen, I agree with you on the "less pilots" part. The "more airlines" part makes even my baby daughter laugh. You do know there is a finite number of seat miles out there? And, there are too many seats right now?

Wow, you tend to think that moving people is the only business in Aviation... How closed minded. A pilot job is a pilot job, if there were more pilot jobs, the more pay. Indirectly calling me an idiot does not help your case, although it probably makes you feel better.

 

[wheelsup]

Wow, you tend to think that moving people is the only business in Aviation... How closed minded. A pilot job is a pilot job, if there were more pilot jobs, the more pay. Indirectly calling me an idiot does not help your case, although it probably makes you feel better.

What does an airline move in your opinion?

If there were more airlines...we'd all be making more money.

I feel like I'm arguing with a 5th grader. :banghead:

 

[BillH]

What does an airline move in your opinion?


I feel like I'm arguing with a 5th grader. :banghead:

Well I know American Airlines is the biggest cargo carrier in Miami.
My arguing point is valid, if there were more pilot jobs, we'd be making more money, based on supply and demand.
If the flying public does not want to fly right now, they sure as heck will not want to when their taxes go up.

 

[wheelsup]

Well I know American Airlines is the biggest cargo carrier in Miami.
My arguing point is valid, if there were more pilot jobs, we'd be making more money, based on supply and demand.
If the flying public does not want to fly right now, they sure as heck will not want to when their taxes go up.

Well the regionals created quite a few jobs but we just simply swapped well paying major jobs for low paying regional jobs.

You also keep changing your "point". Originally it was "more airlines = higher pay" which is what everyone picked apart.

 

[SierraPilot123]

This really needs to be backed up with some serious sources.

I agree. State your sources please!

 

[surreal1221]

I feel like I'm arguing with a 5th grader. :banghead:

Yup. . .so now I have two people that I really can not stand to read, much less respond to.

 

[kellwolf]

I'll go one more step, you also need to protect businesses from lawyers, and you need tort reform. This country would sue itself to death, heck, it has already... Half the cost of a new airplane is liability insurance...

I just saw this one, and I've gotta comment on it. Before the 90s, no one was really making new GA aircraft b/c of the liability insurance and insane lawsuits that basically found the manufacturers liable for everything under the sun. Then the General Aviation Revitalization Act was signed. Guess who signed that one? Yeah, a Democrat. Placed an 18 year moratorium on manufacturer liabilities, so Cessna and The New Piper got to rolling. So, if you're flying an light piston aircraft built post-1994, you can partially thank Bill Clinton.