Airline Careers

Those that perservere will have a shot at my job in 12 to 17 years.

The current situation with the career will weed out many.

If you wanna be a pilot bad enough, and are willing to make the sacrifices, it will work out. Keep in mind, though, that depending on your personal circumstances, sometimes it's just not worth it (though it was for me).
 
There was a time there when I really wanted that airline pilot job. To be honest. Im completely content with just enjoying the science and beauty of flight at my own leisure. I really dont want to ruin that.
Thats just me though.

There are a lot of really good post in this thread by the way.
 
There was a time there when I really wanted that airline pilot job. To be honest. Im completely content with just enjoying the science and beauty of flight at my own leisure. I really dont want to ruin that.
Thats just me though.

There are a lot of really good post in this thread by the way.

My flying and rocking are inversely proportional to yours.
 
Perseverance.

There was a time when I would go to any lengths to succeed in this profession. I can relate to Jtrain's dillema, but I might add an element. For me, finally reaching the brass ring, flying for a major for 3+ years and then getting furloughed felt like I had wasted a decade of my life. I was fortunate (?) enough to go to a commuter after that... but boy, if you want to absolutely feel like dirt show up at IOE for a commuter sitting next to some 250 hour wonder when you have 8000 hours and 3 type ratings.

It makes you realize that experience means nothing in this industry.

So after 3 commuters, 1 LCC, and 1 major i'm flying corporate. I still have 737 models in my son's room and I cant wait to tell him stories from my DC9 and 737 days. I'm proud of what I accomplished.

That being said, if I were in the original poster's situation, would I start down the road to this profession? No.

One needs only look at CNN to see why. Oil prices approaching $150 a barrel. Airlines collapsing under business plans that never counted on those high energy prices. Thousands -- yes, THOUSANDS -- of pilots being furloughed industrywide...some for the second time in a decade.

If you MUST fly, avoid the airlines. Their business model is broken. There are some fantastic flying jobs out there that have nothing to do with the airlines. Better yet pursue something that allows you to spend each night at home with your family. Buy a 172 - convert it to run on butterfly necter ;) - and enjoy flying as an artist might enjoy painting... without the utter fatigue caused by trying to make a living at it!

Guys like slushie think they'll have better luck than I did. And maybe they will. But what, in their opinion did I do wrong? And how will THEY avoid those same pitfalls? The "it can't happen to me" attitude is prevalent in aviation.
 
Besides reading everything Zap writes, there is one huge lesson for this industry.

You will start over.

Some will do so voluntarily, some not. Some more than others. The industry does not respect your accomplishments, your knowledge, your experience or the amount of effort you've put in your career.

Interview calls, who gets jobs, who gets the seniority number. It's all up to a confluence of randomness, timing and luck. Sure meeting the right people at the right time with the right knowledge and experience pull stuff together, but how does that happen? A confluence of the the aforementioned items.

We all "know a guy". We all have expereinces, knowledge and luck that have kept us alive this long.

If you can accept all of this, focusing on the fact that you will start over, then you can contemplate this career.
 
I re-read my post and it seemed somewhat negative. I don't mean to seem negative. I don't know these people. It makes no difference to me whether they fail or are successful in the airline profession.

I just want people to learn from my experiences, my successes, and most importantly my failures in order to help them make the best decisions they can about their own aviation careers.

If it helps, great. If not, ignore it. :)
 
And how will THEY avoid those same pitfalls?

-Reading JetCareers before your first flying job.

-Aiming for "be at home a lot" before there's anyone at home.

-Caring not if you ever hit $100k.

That's the plan. I'll probably hit a few more walls along the way, but I've had enough for rent and food every month without fail.
 
I just want to add my 2 cents. Right now the airline industry is a whacky place, but so are other industries. For example, Merrill Lynch in the financial industry is on a hiring freeze. Whether you want to be an airline pilot, or work in the business world there are positives and negatives. Nothing in life is guarranteed, no matter what industry you work in. Alot of it is timing and a little luck. You have the same chance of becoming an executive as you do a 777 Captain making 250k a year. My point is that if you enjoy flying, become a pilot. Dont let anyone tell you that it is the worst career. Your job isnt secure anywhere you work, unless you are a cop, firefighter, government employee, etc. As an airline pilot, it is realistic to think that you will make decent money (i.e. over 100k), unless you settle and go to a crappy place. One of my friends has been at Skywest for 7yrs, and is a CA. He knows how to work the bid system, and made 110K last year with, on average, 12 days off a month. In regards to furlough, you can be layed off from any occupation, and if you are making a high salary the chances of you finding a company to do that with is highly unlikely. Before I became a pilot, I was a financial analyst for Aon Corporation. My boss made around 300k a year for doing nothing excepting looking at insurance stuff. One day I walked in to work and we had a big meeting about restructuring. My boss who was making 300k was let go after 25 years of service at Aon. S%$& can happen in any industry. Listen to everyones opinion, and talk with as many pilots as possible, but make your own decision and do not let all the "boo birds" influence your decision.
 
-Reading JetCareers before your first flying job.

That's probably a subject for debate. There is an awful lot of "rah rah!" that happens here. That's not a negative -- it's the purpose of the site after all. But it isn't an accurate representation of the industry either.

Caring not if you ever hit $100k.

$100,000 is a whole lot less money than you think it is.
 
<smile>

When it's enough for diapers and a minivan we'll talk. ;) In the meantime, i'm not being a negative nellie. I'm not being a "boo bird". I'm sharing with you what happened to me so that you can take steps to prevent it from happening to you.

What you do with that information is up to you.
 
I re-read my post and it seemed somewhat negative. I don't mean to seem negative. I don't know these people. It makes no difference to me whether they fail or are successful in the airline profession.

I just want people to learn from my experiences, my successes, and most importantly my failures in order to help them make the best decisions they can about their own aviation careers.

If it helps, great. If not, ignore it. :)

It is immensely helpful! There are very few people on this board who have the knowledge and experience you have. When you, DE727UPS, Doug, Polar and a few others speak we newbs should listen and use the advice to make a more informed decision.

Nothing against everyone else on this forum, but the majority of us are relative newcomers to this game. It is very easy to get turned off if you are just starting your career and are dealing with the current mess.

In times like these it is great to have people who have been through the ups and downs, not just this down, who will shine a realistic light on the industry. That is not to say that those new regional FO's and CA's experiences are not real, and can not happen to anyone who enters the industry.

I was on the verge of making some really dumb decisions before I stumbled across this site.

As was I. I was very close to going to ERAU for a second BA because I knew nothing other than the hype sold to me by the admissions department. Luckily I stumbled upon this site and started doing lots of reading. Luckily I only spent the 250 registration fee and nothing more at ERAU.
 
Doug's European adventures is just about enough to keep me pursuing the dream job. May be stupid to waste thousands to see if it is right for me or not, but I'm not quitting until I've experienced it myself.
 
Don't stop and you'll get somewhere. Stop and you are... done.

I was in Israel in January and was talking to a friend of mine about his experiences in combat. He was recently in the second Lebanon war, on foot fighting Hezbollah, and had previously gone into Lebanon in 1982. He said that before getting into something as intense as combat, you do the "arithmetic," which means you weigh all the pros and cons, including the very real chance that you will give your life. Then you come up with a go/no-go decision - either you're in, or you're out. If you're in, than that's it, you make a commitment, and you go do it.

Even though aviation is not the same as combat, I've found a lot of wisdom in that.

And also, if you're just starting out, many of us would appreciate a commitment to fight for what little pay and benefits we have left. That means sometimes passing up flying because it doesn't fit whatever standard you've set. Example: a friend of mine is a pilot for a corporate department at the field I teach at. They sometimes need an extra pilot, and my friend has made it clear that I'm at the top of the list, but would be doing it for meals/lodging and experience as compensation. I've said no - if I'm acting as required crewmember for a corporate flight department, I need to get paid. The problem is, it's not hard for them to find a 250-hour multi/commercial to fill the seat for free. I've heard some say I'm crazy to pass up "free" multi turbine time. But if you want to be a professional pilot, please, for the good of yourself and the that of the rest of us, please don't fly for free!
 
Even Doug will tell you that he's been very fortunate. Not EVERY minor league ball player makes it to the big leagues. And some of those who do, don't stay there very long.

Timing, experience, networking, and a little luck -- all of the stars have to line up just right to have a career like Doug has had (and hopefully will continue to have).
 
D
I want to be telling my Grandson on my lap someday, that I went out and followed my passion and accomplished my goals. Even if I ended up furloughed and in some other career, I can still be proud to say I accomplished my goal and unfortunately it just didn't work out. Rather than tell him that I gave up on the dream because of what other people said or what stood in the way.

And that, grandson, is why there will be no Christmas this year
:sarcasm:
 
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