AIN/Bob Hoover honoring a scab!

ClarkGriswold said:
I'm a big fan of the Continental scab list with the picures too.

And @Cherokee_Cruiser you can say all day long that you would never scab but if you were guaranteed a job at UAL/or your crush SJI as a 777 Captain you would do it tomorrow it's quite clear.
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That's pretty low coming from someone like you. You don't even know me, and if you met me in person you certainly wouldn't make that statement. If there are picket lines at United and Delta, I would not cross them to fly whatever widebody you think I have a crush on. I would stay exactly where I am already. And if that went out, I'd rather walk away from this career and go back to my old engineering background/job and be home every day.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
That's pretty low coming from someone like you. You don't even know me, and if you met me in person you certainly wouldn't make that statement. If there are picket lines at United and Delta, I would not cross them to fly whatever widebody you think I have a crush on. I would stay exactly where I am already. And if that went out, I'd rather walk away from this career and go back to my old engineering background/job and be home every day.
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All you have said in every post almost is how their life is great and it obviously worked out for them. Apologies if I miss intepreted your posts and thought if you could benefit like they did you would be ok with doing it.
 
ClarkGriswold said:
All you have said in every post almost is how their life is great and it obviously worked out for them. Apologies if I miss intepreted your posts and thought if you could benefit like they did you would be ok with doing it.
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It's pretty easy to read that way but I think he was just pointing out that a lot of the scabs haven't really been punished, especially since they're probably the sorts of people that are ok with social stigma and being pariahs.
 
mshunter said:
View attachment 37511 http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2017-01-05/ricci-lacy-be-honored-aviation-living-legends?eid=325863847&bid=1631582

I wonder if Hoover knew/remembered he was a scab before he did this. Kind of changes the way I feel about him now.
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Not everyone accepts the premise that that unions occupy a moral high ground in the ongoing saga that is labor-management relations.
 
FlyingAccountant said:
I'd say we're on the same page, but I'm far less enthusiastic about it as you are.
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I'm not enthusiast about anyone scabbing, I'm not enthusiastic about having someone to hate and wish horrible things to happen upon.

I elevate the act of scabbing to a level of offense much higher than you. My wildly different view point from yours charecterizes and frames scabbing in a different light than you.
 
Flying Saluki said:
Not everyone accepts the premise that that unions occupy a moral high ground in the ongoing saga that is labor-management relations.
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I think most realize that neither side does. It's politics, no matter how you look at it plain and simple. But I'd rather pull for the side that's pulling for me, rather than pull for the side asking for co concessions.
 
ClarkGriswold said:
Ya they knowingly got hired to cross the picket line, so basically were ok with scabbing when they accepted the job but didn't follow through. Almost just as big of dirt bags since the intent was there.
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Springer said:
Clark, are you talking about those hired after May 17, 1985 (strike date)? Those that were hired in the weeks prior to that date were told by ALPA to go to class but not cross on the strike date.
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The 539 group was hired during the strike. They never finished their training before the strike ended so there is no telling what they would have done as far as crossing. ALPA did approve them to begin their training but had told them not to cross. It was another chit move by Ferris to throw in the faces of those on the line, 'look what I can do, there are plenty of pilots out there that I can hire and train who will be happy to fly your routes' if you decide to strike.

The 570 group was hired earlier in '85. Management and ALPA had locked horns and management was doing everything possible to union bust. The group had originally agreed to scab and Ferris had actually made this clear to them that they would be asked to cross. They were trained and sent home. Ferris was holding them and wanting to use them to cross when a strike (which was eminent) was called. Just before ALPA called for a strike, ALPA contacted every pilot in the 570 group and the vast majority of them then refused to cross. The ones that did had to endure their comeuppance from the pilot group when we returned to work. Most of the 570's did the honorable thing in not crossing (like Springer) here and some of them, pissed off at UAL and what they had done not only to them in using them as pawns by Ferris, but felt sympathy to the mainline pilots, also realized what Ferris had tried to do to them and to the standing pilots, and went and applied to other carriers and got hired at various airlines.
 
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jynxyjoe said:
I'm not enthusiast about anyone scabbing, I'm not enthusiastic about having someone to hate and wish horrible things to happen upon.

I elevate the act of scabbing to a level of offense much higher than you. My wildly different view point from yours charecterizes and frames scabbing in a different light than you.
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There's enough negativity in this world, I'm not going to waste my time and energy hating someone for something that by and large, hasn't been an issue in almost 30 years. Given the consolidation in the industry in the past decade, and the chaos that a strike would cause because of that, the odds that a PEB would ever let a major US airline labor group strike is slim to none. I think the AA flight attendants were the last to attempt it back in 2012 or so and they never got released for self help. The point is, the younger generation of unionized airline employees that were children or not even born during the golden age of scabbing probably feel much less militant about the subject than the guys that were there to experience it the last time it happened.

Again, can anyone name the last time a pilot group struck from a major US airline that resulted in scabbing? I'm thinking it might be Eastern in 1989? (Genuine question, not trying to be a smart ass.)
 
FlyingAccountant said:
There's enough negativity in this world, I'm not going to waste my time and energy hating someone for something that by and large, hasn't been an issue in almost 30 years. Given the consolidation in the industry in the past decade, and the chaos that a strike would cause because of that, the odds that a PEB would ever let a major US airline labor group strike is slim to none. I think the AA flight attendants were the last to attempt it back in 2012 or so and they never got released for self help. The point is, the younger generation of unionized airline employees that were children or not even born during the golden age of scabbing probably feel much less militant about the subject than the guys that were there to experience it the last time it happened.

Again, can anyone name the last time a pilot group struck from a major US airline that resulted in scabbing? I'm thinking it might be Eastern in 1989? (Genuine question, not trying to be a smart ass.)
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Spirit 2010
 
FlyingAccountant said:
There's enough negativity in this world, I'm not going to waste my time and energy hating someone for something that by and large, hasn't been an issue in almost 30 years. Given the consolidation in the industry in the past decade, and the chaos that a strike would cause because of that, the odds that a PEB would ever let a major US airline labor group strike is slim to none. I think the AA flight attendants were the last to attempt it back in 2012 or so and they never got released for self help. The point is, the younger generation of unionized airline employees that were children or not even born during the golden age of scabbing probably feel much less militant about the subject than the guys that were there to experience it the last time it happened.

Again, can anyone name the last time a pilot group struck from a major US airline that resulted in scabbing? I'm thinking it might be Eastern in 1989? (Genuine question, not trying to be a smart ass.)
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ClarkGriswold said:
Spirit 2010
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The story of the FO that scabbed:
http://www.shinyjetsyndrome.com/OhNo!.html
 
FlyingAccountant said:
There's enough negativity in this world, I'm not going to waste my time and energy hating someone for something that by and large, hasn't been an issue in almost 30 years. Given the consolidation in the industry in the past decade, and the chaos that a strike would cause because of that, the odds that a PEB would ever let a major US airline labor group strike is slim to none. I think the AA flight attendants were the last to attempt it back in 2012 or so and they never got released for self help. The point is, the younger generation of unionized airline employees that were children or not even born during the golden age of scabbing probably feel much less militant about the subject than the guys that were there to experience it the last time it happened.
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Not sure if you feel like you need the last word here or if you're just rambling. But if your point is hating scabs adds too much negativity energy to the world I don't believe in that stuff so I won't speak to it.

The immediate consequences of scabbing (forgotten by Ono) have become so long lasting and onerous that pilots have a crystal clear vision of the hell that will befall them. I'm sure some pilot's do not have the appreciation for scabbing that our professional forefathers have, however, i would argue even that lower appreciation is still enough deterrence. Where i fall in that spectrum idk. I would say again, i felt i was being polite and overly fair in my characterization trying to take their side for a minute. Their world view is clearly different from mine.
 
jweldon said:
The story of the FO that scabbed:
http://www.shinyjetsyndrome.com/OhNo!.html
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Distasteful writeup. I couldn't shake the image of a hyena at the keyboard pounding away. Foamy at the mouth and all.

I've been blessed with growing up in the good old USSR where unions were responsible for getting the members perks otherwise unavailable. Trips to the sunny beaches, shipping the kids off to the coolest summer camps, all that.
Here... ever wonder why the US shipyards get so little business compared to the Bahamas and such? Why French shipyards don't build anything anymore? Not that you'd care as a union worker, your pay is in the contract, all good until the doors close for good.
Regardless. Let's say there's a union and it votes on certain agenda. Let's say 48 and change percent disagree. Of those a tiny fraction scabs. This thread indicates that they are not human anymore and should be encouraged to go hang themselves in any way applicable.

Guess what, this isn't how the democracy works. If it was, we'd have to load up a whole bunch of marching/protesting people and ship them off to Canada or worse.

This is, however, how school bullies operate. Isolated individual that can't hold up to the tsunami of the mass spitting - yeah, get him. Who cares why he scabbed? Who cares if he agrees with the union or not? It's the vocal 5% of the group who get to choose what happens and woe on those who disagree - for the stink is the power and they are stealing the food out of the childrens' mouths and all that good stuff.

I wonder if the unions refund the past dues to the scabs, because they should - or be able to protect them from the rage.
 
BigZ said:
Distasteful writeup. I couldn't shake the image of a hyena at the keyboard pounding away. Foamy at the mouth and all.

I've been blessed with growing up in the good old USSR where unions were responsible for getting the members perks otherwise unavailable. Trips to the sunny beaches, shipping the kids off to the coolest summer camps, all that.
Here... ever wonder why the US shipyards get so little business compared to the Bahamas and such? Why French shipyards don't build anything anymore? Not that you'd care as a union worker, your pay is in the contract, all good until the doors close for good.
Regardless. Let's say there's a union and it votes on certain agenda. Let's say 48 and change percent disagree. Of those a tiny fraction scabs. This thread indicates that they are not human anymore and should be encouraged to go hang themselves in any way applicable.

Guess what, this isn't how the democracy works. If it was, we'd have to load up a whole bunch of marching/protesting people and ship them off to Canada or worse.

This is, however, how school bullies operate. Isolated individual that can't hold up to the tsunami of the mass spitting - yeah, get him. Who cares why he scabbed? Who cares if he agrees with the union or not? It's the vocal 5% of the group who get to choose what happens and woe on those who disagree - for the stink is the power and they are stealing the food out of the childrens' mouths and all that good stuff.

I wonder if the unions refund the past dues to the scabs, because they should - or be able to protect them from the rage.
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I'm just now working on my instrument, so I'm not a union worker :P At least, not yet.
 
jynxyjoe said:
Not sure if you feel like you need the last word here or if you're just rambling. But if your point is hating scabs adds too much negativity energy to the world I don't believe in that stuff so I won't speak to it.
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If you go back to what I originally said when I was trying to end the exchange peacefully, I said I ultimately agreed with you. I just don't feel the need to run it into the ground with the same vitriol and fervor that you do.
 
FlyingAccountant said:
If you go back to what I originally said when I was trying to end the exchange peacefully, I said I ultimately agreed with you. I just don't feel the need to run it into the ground with the same vitriol and fervor that you do.
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If you're trying to end the discussion fine, I can understand that.
 
av8tr1 said:
Can someone explain to me why only the FO was called out like this? My understanding is an FO usually isn't PIC (cuz I were one) so what's the story on the Captain? Or does the Captain have some sort of secret squirrel get out of scab free card?
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Delta early retirement pilot who honestly thought it was funny as hell and blamed unions and organized labor for his lot in life comes to mind. I believe he told the Spirit pilots exactly what he thought of them and it was memorialized before his age 65 came up some years ago.

My guess was, he wanted to retire and work as managment for Falcon or whoever it was.
 
jweldon said:
I'm just now working on my instrument, so I'm not a union worker :p At least, not yet.
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That was a rhetorical "you", not you "you" :) moreover, I'm no way, shape or form referring to the union pilots in general. Just the vocal 5 (that's my best guess, probably way overestimated as far as the pilot population goes)%.
I've seen the "vocal 5%" start civil wars and historically few if any at all of those 5% go to fight and die in those
 
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