Advice needed

B

B200 Hawk

Well-Known Member
(Sorry if wrong subforum)

Currently in the left seat at a ULCC, around 45% company wide. Being displaced out of my current base and into a 2 leg commute. Current base is indefinite reserve, even if I can get back soon. The 2 leg commute I’ll be a fringe line holder and could potentially drop/swap or pick up out of base.

options:
-deal with the awful commute and potentially be sitting reserve for a bit and hope to get back to original base which will be indefinite reserve but a drive to work
-downgrade to stay in original base but easily hold whatever I want
-leave the ulcc behind for a legacy that will always be around in the original base (tough seniority pill to swallow)

Kickers: Said ULCC is merging with LCC. Downgrade might hurt SLI standing. Also, have an infant at home. Still 30 years left in career (well hopefully 20-25 lol)

Appreciate the advice.
 
It's all going to come down to what you think is best for you...

As someone who is in the same exact position I can sympathize with these tough decisions. I took the voluntary to leave my base because of the reductions there. My easy commute will be twice as long and will be a occasional 2 leg starting next month.

I upgraded right at the beginning of the pandemic, March 15th, 2020 to be exact. My daughter was born 6 months later. I have spent the entirety of her life commuting to SCR. It sucks, 10/10 would not recommend. With the displacement I finally have a line in my new base, with a further commute but just the simple fact that it happened has lifted a weight off my shoulders.

The merger stuff is what you make of it. Historically you want to be in the seat and base you want come merger close. So you're going to have to ask yourself what is more important to you. Junior Capt on reserve, or Senior FO having every weekend off.

Personally for me, I'm currently sticking it out for the long term end goal. I'm a QOL person, being in my mid 30's and already in the left seat should lead to many many years of great QOL.
 
I am in this picture (minus the merger) and I feel you. Nothing about the choice you’re trying to make is easy, especially when considering that moving up comes with a $150k pay hit. Though certainly displacing to FO to stay in base would come with its own financial penalty.

Decisions are hard, but it’s nice that right now climate is such that options exist.
 
What about moving temporarily? Rent your house out and rent in the new place with the idea that it will only be for a year. Infants don't care about moving. The wife might, though. Maybe she works. Personally, I'd shoot for a legacy. It's all a crapshoot but likely better pay and job security.
 
I’m in a very similar scenario. Almost eerily similar, just not at the same ULCC. I also have some very tough decisions to be made. Irons are in the fire as we speak, and I have been metaphorically pulling my hair out trying to decide what to do with my career direction. I feel your pain. This is the first time in my career that I’ve truly been at a loss of what to do.
 
turbojet28 said:
I’m in a very similar scenario. Almost eerily similar, just not at the same ULCC. I also have some very tough decisions to be made. Irons are in the fire as we speak, and I have been metaphorically pulling my hair out trying to decide what to do with my career direction. I feel your pain. This is the first time in my career that I’ve truly been at a loss of what to do.
Click to expand...

LFDR 2.no?
 
roundout said:
LFDR 2.no?
Click to expand...

Some point soon I will have to decide if it’s going to be LFDR 2.no or LFDR 2.go…

Right now I feel like the biggest factor in this decision, as in yours, is the uncertain macroeconomic climate. There are those who say that the history of the industry is bound to repeat itself, and there are those who say that due to a slew of macro-level factors (retirements, modern consumer behaviors, “too-big-to-fail” legacy carriers, precedent set of government support, etc) that a new paradigm of industry dynamics is at play and thinking in terms of the past is obsolete. I have always tended to lean toward the former, but perhaps times really are different?

The job security implied by being in the top 50% of a seniority list at a ULCC is something very difficult to price in to the equation. How much is it worth? Is it worth the gamble to take the legacy job and give up what ground you’ve worked for? Is the ULCC or LCC model really going to do as well as its god-kings say? And if not, how valuable is that top 50% number in reality? Lots of really big questions without very many clear answers.
 
turbojet28 said:
Some point soon I will have to decide if it’s going to be LFDR 2.no or LFDR 2.go…

Right now I feel like the biggest factor in this decision, as in yours, is the uncertain macroeconomic climate. There are those who say that the history of the industry is bound to repeat itself, and there are those who say that due to a slew of macro-level factors (retirements, modern consumer behaviors, “too-big-to-fail” legacy carriers, precedent set of government support, etc) that a new paradigm of industry dynamics is at play and thinking in terms of the past is obsolete. I have always tended to lean toward the former, but perhaps times really are different?

The job security implied by being in the top 50% of a seniority list at a ULCC is something very difficult to price in to the equation. How much is it worth? Is it worth the gamble to take the legacy job and give up what ground you’ve worked for? Is the ULCC or LCC model really going to do as well as its god-kings say? And if not, how valuable is that top 50% number in reality? Lots of really big questions without very many clear answers.
Click to expand...

Thanks for typing all this so I didn’t need to.

OP, know you aren’t alone, friend!!
 
B200 Hawk said:
(Sorry if wrong subforum)

Currently in the left seat at a ULCC, around 45% company wide. Being displaced out of my current base and into a 2 leg commute. Current base is indefinite reserve, even if I can get back soon. The 2 leg commute I’ll be a fringe line holder and could potentially drop/swap or pick up out of base.

options:
-deal with the awful commute and potentially be sitting reserve for a bit and hope to get back to original base which will be indefinite reserve but a drive to work
-downgrade to stay in original base but easily hold whatever I want
-leave the ulcc behind for a legacy that will always be around in the original base (tough seniority pill to swallow)

Kickers: Said ULCC is merging with LCC. Downgrade might hurt SLI standing. Also, have an infant at home. Still 30 years left in career (well hopefully 20-25 lol)

Appreciate the advice.
Click to expand...
It’s not a fun spot to be in. I’m sub 40% at the same carrier and a commuter so I’ve thought about this many times. I almost left for UA but it wouldn’t have resulted in me being home based so I decided not to and I don’t really want to work for either carrier who have bases in my city (AA and SWA). Sometimes it really feels like having seniority here is much like golden handcuffs.
 
Box hauler said:
It’s not a fun spot to be in. I’m sub 40% at the same carrier and a commuter so I’ve thought about this many times. I almost left for UA but it wouldn’t have resulted in me being home based so I decided not to and I don’t really want to work for either carrier who have bases in my city (AA and SWA). Sometimes it really feels like having seniority here is much like golden handcuffs.
Click to expand...
Seems like any movement to be had at CA requires a FL domicile. Can’t/not moving down there. Luckily (for now) if you can hold a line there is flexibility to get out of commuting. Such a fine line.

also, thank you everyone for the replies!
 
B200 Hawk said:
(Sorry if wrong subforum)

Currently in the left seat at a ULCC, around 45% company wide. Being displaced out of my current base and into a 2 leg commute. Current base is indefinite reserve, even if I can get back soon. The 2 leg commute I’ll be a fringe line holder and could potentially drop/swap or pick up out of base.

options:
-deal with the awful commute and potentially be sitting reserve for a bit and hope to get back to original base which will be indefinite reserve but a drive to work
-downgrade to stay in original base but easily hold whatever I want
-leave the ulcc behind for a legacy that will always be around in the original base (tough seniority pill to swallow)

Kickers: Said ULCC is merging with LCC. Downgrade might hurt SLI standing. Also, have an infant at home. Still 30 years left in career (well hopefully 20-25 lol)

Appreciate the advice.
Click to expand...
hey bro!, I left the left seat of a ULLC for a Legacy. Long story short...I wish I did it sooner. I did it solely to live in base. I upgraded to an awful commute to a worse reserve schedule with no hope in sight of it getting better. The money and 4 stripes wasn't worth it anymore. Ironically after resigning, only to have said ULCC announce a DFW base, I still would have left.

Now Ill be driving to work and will hold wide body FO in a few years..(I won't commute for a captain seat or wide body FO, which I could do shortly)

my advice...make the move sooner than later.
 
B200 Hawk said:
(Sorry if wrong subforum)

Currently in the left seat at a ULCC, around 45% company wide. Being displaced out of my current base and into a 2 leg commute. Current base is indefinite reserve, even if I can get back soon. The 2 leg commute I’ll be a fringe line holder and could potentially drop/swap or pick up out of base.

options:
-deal with the awful commute and potentially be sitting reserve for a bit and hope to get back to original base which will be indefinite reserve but a drive to work
-downgrade to stay in original base but easily hold whatever I want
-leave the ulcc behind for a legacy that will always be around in the original base (tough seniority pill to swallow)

Kickers: Said ULCC is merging with LCC. Downgrade might hurt SLI standing. Also, have an infant at home. Still 30 years left in career (well hopefully 20-25 lol)

Appreciate the advice.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing Spirit and either DFW or ORD based?

Honestly, two legger is brutal. I can't imagine doing that long term. And I don't mean to lob fear grenades, but I don't see jetBlue keeping all Spirit bases. No way, mergers almost almost squash out a base and streamline operations. I lost NYC at my shop. Delta killed MEM. If I was a NK pilot at ORD or DFW, I think I would have legit concerns about those being jetBlue bases going forward. This merger will be good for LA/LAS, the upper Northeast (Bos, NYC, maybe ACY), and all of Florida (fortified even moreso).


How many years at Spirit is 45%? Honestly if it's less than 5-6 yrs, I'd punch out for AA or UA for DFW/ORD.
 
"Downgrade might hurt SLI standing. "


I hear this a lot. I don't think pilots understand binding arbitration SLIs. Heck, I don't even after going through two myself. That said, it's almost always stovepiped. You are where you are on your own seniority list. It doesn't matter if the #1 pilot at the airline is a FO and never took a CA upgrade. In the SLI, he is still processed as having been #1 on his company seniority list.

Now if you're saying you're concerned about what you could bid post-SLI because of the unknown vacancy positions, reductions, then I can see your point.
 
CFIT99 said:
hey bro!, I left the left seat of a ULLC for a Legacy. Long story short...I wish I did it sooner. I did it solely to live in base. I upgraded to an awful commute to a worse reserve schedule with no hope in sight of it getting better. The money and 4 stripes wasn't worth it anymore. Ironically after resigning, only to have said ULCC announce a DFW base, I still would have left.

Now Ill be driving to work and will hold wide body FO in a few years..(I won't commute for a captain seat or wide body FO, which I could do shortly)

my advice...make the move sooner than later.
Click to expand...

Can I ask how many yrs at your ULCC you gave up to start at a legacy?
 
Box hauler said:
It’s not a fun spot to be in. I’m sub 40% at the same carrier and a commuter so I’ve thought about this many times. I almost left for UA but it wouldn’t have resulted in me being home based so I decided not to and I don’t really want to work for either carrier who have bases in my city (AA and SWA). Sometimes it really feels like having seniority here is much like golden handcuffs.
Click to expand...
I know there’s a lot that goes into it, but in this scenario is the 45% seniority worth as much when they’re being displaced anyway? Furlough protection sure, but QOL wise it doesn’t seem like it’s serving them super well. I’ve definitely hit that point where I seemed to be getting more senior yet QOL seemed to be getting worse.
 
JordanD said:
I know there’s a lot that goes into it, but in this scenario is the 45% seniority worth as much when they’re being displaced anyway? Furlough protection sure, but QOL wise it doesn’t seem like it’s serving them super well. I’ve definitely hit that point where I seemed to be getting more senior yet QOL seemed to be getting worse.
Click to expand...
IMO it seems that you want to make the jump and it’s helpful if peers tell you it’s a good decision. Absolutely understandable and I would do everything possible to get the interview and offer from places that could give you a strong base at home. If you get those offers you will know in your gut the second you get the email if you want it or not. If you get the offer and take it that’s awesome. If you don’t get the offer or don’t take it that’s also awesome because you won’t second guess if you could have made the jump if you wanted to.
 
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