Academy Tour

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So, the purpose of the tour is entertainment? I thought it was for people to evaluate a potential investment. Would you go to a car dealership and be sold on a car they were selling if they didn't let you see the car, but did let you play Grand Turismo for 2 minutes?

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Ok, really not sure why you're so intent on this so I'll respond and leave you be.

I'm not endorsing DCA, however, those FRASCA FTDs that you're compairing to a Play Station can be used for logging instrument approaches and provide a very nice (nonmotion) simulation of flight. Given the choice between looking at an aircraft and gaining flight experience (however limited), I would choose to use the FTD.

That said, in the year or so I was at DCA, I constantly saw groups looking at and into the planes on the flight line unless it was raining or hurricanes were coming. And, with all of my reservations about DCA, their maintenance program is top notch so seeing the aircraft wasn't as much a concern.

Just my 2 cents!

Regards,
Marc
 
Like I said, whatever floats your boat. But I think you are in the minority. The planes should be the main event of the tour. You say having some fun in the sim is more important that show and tell, but the entire purpose of the tour is show and tell. All I'm saying is that their tour is a very elaborate production. When they go to the trouble of showing us all that they do, and don't even mention going out on the ramp, it kind of makes one wonder if they have something to hide. That may not be the case, but that's what it looks like to an outsider. If most tours do get to see the planes, that's great. That's the way it should be. But when I took the tour it was a bright and sunny day, and I'd hate to think the only reason I didn't get to see the planes is because there were a lot of people in my group and the admin people thought it was more important that we each got to fly a Frasca for 2 minutes. If they'd have let us each backseat on a flight, or better yet let us fly with an instructor for 20 min or so, that would have made a huge impression, and would have let me get an idea what its like to train there. But they should have at least let us see the planes, or at least given us a very good reason why they can't. They didn't even mention it.
 
Hey now! Lets not get into a pissing match over seeing a bunch of airplanes! So the guy didn't get to see the airplanes on his tour. I'm sorry that whoever gave the tour didn't let him see the aircraft. Because of that it cost DCA a possible student. Water under the bridge. Flyguy is at Sierra and is happy with the choice he made The mistake is truely schools fault.
 
Most all of the time, we take everyone out to see the aircraft. Even on days with inclement weather, people still have the choice to go out on the ramp and see the Aircraft. Nearly all of the time, they decline the offer if its raining.
Now sometimes we are rushed due to the fact that someone on the tour has to catch an early flight and we need to move the entire tour and a faster pace to accomodate that persons flight, but still we make it a point to show that aircraft.Now sometimes I only show one or two of them vs. the whole fleet, but I also tell the tour that if they want to see any others, just ask there admissions officer who will be more than happy to take them back out to see the planes. Heck, we enjoy going out there, we get out of the office for a bit, get some fresh air (well as fresh as it can be on a ramp) and get to watch the commercial airliners coming in and out as well. I find it very hard to believe that on a "bright and sunny day" you were not permitted to see the aircraft, nor be given a reason why. Did you ask why you weren't being permitted to see the aircraft? If it was as importent to you as your making it out to be, why wouldn't you have asked such a simple question? That really baffles me to no end. Like if I went to this car dealership and was told to play Grand Turismo for two minutes in lieu of a test drive, I think, call me crazy, but I just possibly might ask why I wasn't being permitted to go on a test drive. I don't know, maybe it's just me.
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Well, to be perfectly honest, Comair was the first school I toured and had no idea what to expect of an academy tour. I left feeling very impressed with the school, but at the same time puzzled as to why I was not given a chance to see the planes. I assumed there was a good reason. I began to really wonder about why I could not see the planes after touring a few more schools and getting to see the planes at all of them, and even getting a chance to backseat on a student's flight at one. I also saw that Comair went way over the top with the tour. No other school put nearly that much effort into trying to convince me that I should train there, and like I said, I figured if they put that much effort into showing the place off and didn't let us see the planes they might have something to hide. I also started to wonder why they felt the need to put that much effort into getting us in the door. It was also after touring other schools that I realized how pushy Comair was.

Now this was a couple years ago, and I don't assume nothing has changed since then. If they are showing the aircraft, that's great, but I assure you it was a bright and sunny day when I went, and there was no mention of going to the ramp.

Actually yankee_one, now that you bring it up, I might have asked to see the planes if it wasn't for the fact that by the time I was done with an entire day of propoganda, I did have a flight to catch. If I'd have realized they were not going to be able to show the planes on the tour, and that there would be no time left at the end of the day, I'd have probably asked to see them instead of flying the sim and twiddling my thumbs for half and hour while everyone else took a turn. Instead what happened was I went with what they were showing us, the whole time thinking the planes were comming up later, and all of a sudden the tour's over and I'm running late for my flight. Hope that clears up your confussion a little.
 
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Like if I went to this car dealership and was told to play Grand Turismo for two minutes in lieu of a test drive, I think, call me crazy, but I just possibly might ask why I wasn't being permitted to go on a test drive. I don't know, maybe it's just me.
banghead.gif


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Putting aside what I said above, the purpose of the tour is for the school to show me why I should go there. Just like the purpose of the test drive is to show the customer why he should buy the car. If the best of what they have to show me does not include airplanes, that dosn't say much about a pilot school. Go to any car dealership and within minutes you will have a salesman trying to get you to go for a test drive. They do that because they are confident enough in their product, that they figure if you drive the car you will want to buy it. If they don't offer to let you go for a drive, is it your responsibility to beg and plead that they let you? No. If you are not sold by what you were given to see, the salesman did not do his job. If a dealer tells you to play Grand Tourismo and tells you nothing of driving the car, you'd probably go to a dealer that would make the offer to let you dive it without you having to ask. If this is the first time you've ever bought a car, you may be a little puzzled why you did not get a chance to drive it, but might figure it is standard practice. However, when you go to the next dealer and the first thing they do is give you the keys, you start to wonder why the first dealarship didn't do that. What's wrong with the car they were trying to sell? If it was really all that great, it should speak for its self. The fancy sales tactics should not be needed.
 
Is the academy tour a group thing usually ? Or one on one ? I'm leaving tomorow to go down there. Was just wondering
 
If you we fly you down, your generally going to tour with a group. If you come down on your own and it's a Monday or Friday, you'll probably do a one on one tour.
 
Ok guys I'm back from the DCA tour. I was there yestuarday. Myself and my dad got the free airfare down there, and were picked up at the airport. The place we stayed was AWESOME...nicest hotel we've been in. Had a room with a small living area, bedroom, and kitchen. Next morning driver picked us up again, and took us out to DCA. From the second we arrived...it was nothing like I expected. It was larger, with tons and tons of students and instructors. Airplanes coming in, and leaving. Very busy place. We had a very very warm welcome by the staff, and a very warm welcome from Jovina in admissions. It was only myself and my dad there for the tour that day. We began by sitting down for about a half hour with Jovina for a short interview and question/answer session. She told us a lot about the school, the training, and the life of a regional airline pilot. We then walked over to the academics building where we seen the classrooms, and stopped in the Sim Hall. We met with the instructor there and she went over all the different simulators, and told us about the operation there. I was allowed to fly one of the Frasca sims doing basic private pilot stuff, take off, steep turns, landing, etc. Was very cool. After that we checked out the information lab, and the new CRJ simulator. We talked with the retired airline pilot that was running the Sim, and also with a current Chataqua FO ( graduate of DCA ). We talked about what to expect as a new hire at the airlines...was very informative. We then went across to the operations center, where we seen the pilot shop, flight planning, and dispatch. This place was packed with students and instructors...some planning flights, some studying..I couldnt believe how many there were !! After that we were allowed full access to the flight line, and were allowed to sit in the different aircraft. After this we went back to the office and met with the financial aid officer, and went over the Key loan and had all of our questions answered. Then back into Jovina's office to discuss prices, and the program/classes in detail. We were offered lunch, but we decided not to eat because we eat a big meal at the hotel before coming. We were never pressured at all, and it was nothing like what some of you guys here have described. After all was said and done, I would say that the school is very impressive. The structure of the program and accountability/proffesionalism of the students and staff is what really stood out to us, as well as just the large number of people there. Anybody else here instructors at DCA ?? I'd like to talk to you if possible...let me know !! On the way home on the plane....my dad just said these words........WOW have you got a decision to make......
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What was the price you were quoted? If it's over 45,000, it's too much. I don't care how professional it was.

And I've got one quick question...why the hell would they be talking about a regional airline FO? They should be talking about how hard it is to get a job, how overpriced they are, and how the curriculum is organized....

Quick word of advice...if they're not supported on this website, it's probably not a good idea.

Think long and hard before signing away your life on that Key Bank Promissary Note...there is NO going back.

Good Luck...
 
"and it was nothing like what some of you guys here have described"

Did they mention you don't get the guaranteed regional interview unless you instruct there for 700 hours at $10/hr? You don't "graduate" unless you do this.

Not knocking your choice of DCA. I'm glad you went there and checked it out and talked to people. Hope you have a great experience, should you choose to go there.

To say it's not like it's been discribed here and ignore the counsel of those that actually HAVE gone there is kinda crazy, if you ask me. Also, to NOT check the place out because of what's said here is equally crazy. So you did the right thing.

Do you think going to a DCA type big academy is the only way to become an airline pilot? How many other schools, from FBO to big academy, have you visited?
 
"If they are not supported on this website...."

I, and a lot of others in these posts support DCA. Just wanted to make that clear. Make an informed decision, look at all of the schools and decide what is best for you. No pressure from me on whether to attend, but there are plenty of supporters for DCA here...

Feel free to e-mail me with any specific questions and look through all of the past posts, you will find lots of info here both good and bad. Take ALL of it with a grain of salt...
 
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To say it's not like it's been discribed here and ignore the counsel of those that actually HAVE gone there is kinda crazy, if you ask me. Also, to NOT check the place out because of what's said here is equally crazy. So you did the right thing.


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I could be wrong 727, but as I recall, you have never been even been. So would it be just as crazy to pay attention to the counsel of someone that has never even seen the place?

...and it's 800 hours dual given, not 700, ya gotta get your story straight man....
 
Smittey the reason they talked about a regional FO job is because that is the desired end result. It was good to talk with the Chataqua FO...to talk to somebody that has done it. Never was i told that it would be easy. Yes, it was quoted over 45,000...but it takes into account living expenses and over-training possibilities. Also, I was given the details about the program. When u mentioned "signing your life away"...its true in a way....but isnt that what i'm gonna do anyways ? Whether I go to DCA, or ATP, or wherever....its gonna mean paying a LOT of money, taking a huge risk, and leaving my well paying secure job. But....i'm 100% willing to do it. Almost like getting married !!
De727...yep i was told that i'd have to stay there to instruct to time build...but i knew that coming in. that would be anywhere...gotta build time.
Wannabe....thanks i'll email you...i do have a few questions for you when u have time...thanks !!!!
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I could be wrong 727, but as I recall, you have never been even been. So would it be just as crazy to pay attention to the counsel of someone that has never even seen the place?


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That's a good point 727. You knock every single academy, yet you also say our own experience of visiting the school is more valuable than advice of someone who has never been there. So where exactly do you stand? Why don't you visit a few before you condemn them all?
 
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I could be wrong 727, but as I recall, you have never been even been. So would it be just as crazy to pay attention to the counsel of someone that has never even seen the place?


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That's a good point 727. You knock every single academy, yet you also say our own experience of visiting the school is more valuable than advice of someone who has never been there. So where exactly do you stand? Why don't you visit a few before you condemn them all?

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You know guys, if DE was hammering the academies on the quality of their training or the capability of thier graduates, I'd say you might have a point. Since he's not beating on those attributes (in fact I'm pretty sure I've seen him post good things about some of the programs and graduates), maybe you should rethink what you are saying here. There is no reason someone has to have been through the academy program, or even visited the school, to know that the BS getting tossed about in the advertising and marketing programs is misleading. The misleading part has to do with the outside world, i.e. outside of what happens at the schools, not the quality of the programs or graduates.

I read DE's comments as attacking the marketing ploys of the schools in question, not as commentary on the school, its students, or its training. I know it's hard not to take it personally when you guys have so much invested in the programs, and have good experiences there, but somehow you need to seperate the two things. Misleading marketing does not necessarily mean there is anything wrong with the school.

Just my take on things....

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"So would it be just as crazy to pay attention to the counsel of someone that has never even seen the place?"

Not if they had been flying airplanes since before you were born and was a 757/767 pilot for a major airline.

The fact that I've never been to DCA doesn't mean I can't read the BS they pedal at their website. I'm concerned that the tour might be the same sort of BS....you know, don't tell the whole story.

The kid says he knows what's up. Good for him, I'll leave it at that.

I hope he sticks around and continues to post about his experiences. Good or bad....
 
"That's a good point 727. You knock every single academy, yet you also say our own experience of visiting the school is more valuable than advice of someone who has never been there. So where exactly do you stand? Why don't you visit a few before you condemn them all?"

Show me where I've knocked any academy besides PanAm, DCA, Gulfstream, TAB, and, Sierra a while back? I'm only asking for truth in advertising or marketing. I actually like one thing about DCA, when guys graduate, they have 1000 total and some multi. The CFI experience, while $10/hr is a joke, is priceless. I HATE the thought of a 300 hour jet F/O.

"Visiting the school" is very important. What worries me is that that the tours might not be tell the whole story. The fact remains that the 800 hour CFI requirement exists and that a good number of guys don't complete the program to "graduation". For example, H46bubba, will get his CFI at the academy but won't be allowed the "interview" because of the route he's taking at DCA.

Like I said, I asked the kid a few questions and he seems satisfied. Not much more I say cause he is convinced that he knows what he's doing. I actually hope he's right and will let us know down the road what he thinks.

I have a friend who did the FBO route and it took him two years to go from Commerical SE to a job at Amflight. It will be another half year to turbine PIC. Can DCA match taking a guy from Commercial SE to turbine PIC in 2.5 years? Now that's a question to be asked of the Chataqua F/O.
 
727, I used to think you were insane too, but now the only thing I have come to realize is you couldn't be more correct.

I guess all we can do is let him go...spend 80,000+ (without a degree).

You're buying all this glossy brochure/ "we'll promise you the world" [censored]. I'm sorry, but I'd rather go to Ari-Ben spend 30k, get all my ratings, a job, and more multi time than that DCA CFI could get in 10 years.

Just think about it before you sign...don't be a fool.
 
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