AA Updates

[Flagship_dxer]

These are some interesting and pretty exciting times to be at AA. US Airways dispatch will be coming down to the IOC in DFW sometime over the next 18-24 months. A new dispatch system from Jeppesen has been in the works for a while and seems like to eventually in the future replace the old native Sabre. Some say it will come soon and others still say it will never come.

The integration is causing a lot of shuffling around on the management side. Lots of new managers and new faces mixed in with the old guard. Manuals are starting to be consolidated and some terminology is starting to be refined to fit both carriers.

The US and AA dispatch unions are not on the same page merger wise. Both have two different agendas. It really is anyone's guess how it will end. There are two completely different groups with polar opposite ways of doing things. About the only thing similar is the same native Sabre product for dispatching.

Currently, there are just shy of two dozen trainees on the floor. Mostly from Eagle and other internal. The Eagle dispatchers from the first class are doing very well and several are set to upgrade from trainee to dispatcher fairly soon. The possibly not so good news for externals is that numerous Eagle dispatchers that have never really considered AA over the past fifteen to twenty years are now considering AA again due to the uncertainty surrounding the future at Eagle. With Eagle dispatchers doing very well getting signed off at AA, it will probably mean Eagle dispatchers will probably comprise a lot of the new hires at legacy AA for a while. There are roughly 75 dispatchers at Eagle and I would not be surprised to see 40 or more put in for AA next time and possibly a higher number if it looks like Eagle flying will be discontinued.

AA has a severe lack of OJT trainers. Many trainers that are willing to train have been doing so for nearly two years straight. Many are getting burnt out on training. The low amount of extra pay for training does not help very much. With retirements and growth occurring, a new hiring class is a possibility probably towards the end of the year or next year.

The biggest question mark is who will lead AA dispatch going forward in the merged group. The newly announced managing director of dispatch and operations management is an ex-NWA crew scheduling manager and dispatcher. It is not clear if he will lead AA dispatch or be just an overseer of all the different layers of management in the IOC. Rumors still say there could be two dispatch managers.

With US OCC coming down, there will likely be some re-arranging of things in the IOC. Eagle will be moving to a location in Irving. There was talk of doing a total re-do of the IOC to accommodate all groups but speculation has it now that load control and crew scheduling will takeover the Eagle SOC and US dispatch will move into the IOC with desks being re-arrange to accommodate US dispatch, AA dispatch and MOC.

 

[BruinsFan]

On the USAirways side there is a class of twelve going through right now. Two internals and the rest external primarily from the regional ranks, including Eagle, ExpressJet, Air Wisconsin, Piedmont, Allegiant, and Republic. I have heard this class will start OJT sometime in late April or early May, with everyone probably checked out in June. Possible more hiring later in the year, and I think it's a great time to get on there of you can.

 

[dispatchguy]

. A new dispatch system from Jeppesen has been in the works for a while and seems like to eventually in the future replace the old native Sabre. Some say it will come soon and others still say it will never come.

You poor bastards. My carrier has Jeppesen, as long as you enjoy cryptic error messages that are meaningless to a human, and waiting forever for a flight plan to come back, and waiting forever for them to fix something they screwed up, you'll enjoy it.

Long live the JR Mask!

 

[Flagship_dxer]

You poor bastards. My carrier has Jeppesen, as long as you enjoy cryptic error messages that are meaningless to a human, and waiting forever for a flight plan to come back, and waiting forever for them to fix something they screwed up, you'll enjoy it.

Long live the JR Mask!

That is why it has not been rolled out yet. AA dispatchers do about 45-50 releases on an 8 hour AM shift, roughly 30-35 on 8 hour midnights concentrated in a 3 hours period, and 25-30 on 8 hour PM shift. Native Sabre has a very quick response time to flight plan inputs. Moving to a slow jepp product would mean having to reduce the amount of releases and increase staffing by quite a bit.

The issue is native Sabre is getting too old. The technology is so out of date that they have not taught programmers the language in several decades. The programmers that know it are disappearing due to age. They need to move away from Sabre DECS but the new one to do the same functions as the old one.

With new management in dispatch and Flight Ops having a strong NWA element, we have no clue how they will deal with the issue of an ageing platform and the current available products to replace it. AA put a ton of money into the jepp system and many will want to see the investment show results.

 

[PlaneFan82]

That is why it has not been rolled out yet. AA dispatchers do about 45-50 releases on an 8 hour AM shift, roughly 30-35 on 8 hour midnights concentrated in a 3 hours period, and 25-30 on 8 hour PM shift. Native Sabre has a very quick response time to flight plan inputs. Moving to a slow jepp product would mean having to reduce the amount of releases and increase staffing by quite a bit.

The issue is native Sabre is getting too old. The technology is so out of date that they have not taught programmers the language in several decades. The programmers that know it are disappearing due to age. They need to move away from Sabre DECS but the new one to do the same functions as the old one.

With new management in dispatch and Flight Ops having a strong NWA element, we have no clue how they will deal with the issue of an ageing platform and the current available products to replace it. AA put a ton of money into the jepp system and many will want to see the investment show results.

Jepp is terrible. Full of empty promises and a flight planning system that is a step above a slate and chisel.

 

[BigFellor]

The US and AA dispatch unions are not on the same page merger wise. Both have two different agendas. It really is anyone's guess how it will end.

US and AA aren't even in the same library, forget about being anywhere near the same page. It wouldn't surprise me one bit to see US get down there under the contract that's in place while AA is still working under theirs, ala United/Continental, Southwest/Airtran.

 

[Flagship_dxer]

US and AA aren't even in the same library, forget about being anywhere near the same page. It wouldn't surprise me one bit to see US get down there under the contract that's in place while AA is still working under theirs, ala United/Continental, Southwest/Airtran.

I think we will see one side either force a contract through or cave on things. TWU 542 believes getting pay raises out of the current management will be difficult but if we have a modified version of the current AA contract then it would allow for a contractual pay raise which makes the payscale the average of the other majors along with the contractual fuel performance bonus. If no agreement with US TWU 545 is reached, AA dispatchers will likely lose out on a lot of money since the US Airways pay will bring down the pay scale when averaged out with the other majors.

TWU 542 is trying to get permission from the international union to bypass the negotiating process with TWU 545 and agree with management on a TA for the group as a whole. The international union has not given its opinion on the matter yet. I think if the international rules against TWU 542, you might see 542 try to sweeten the deal for Airways by caving on certain things in order to get a deal done before the contractual pay raise occurs.

If not deal were to get done, expect it to take even longer than the AA/Continental one because of how different the two groups are.

 

[No_Se]

That is why it has not been rolled out yet. AA dispatchers do about 45-50 releases on an 8 hour AM shift, roughly 30-35 on 8 hour midnights concentrated in a 3 hours period, and 25-30 on 8 hour PM shift. Native Sabre has a very quick response time to flight plan inputs. Moving to a slow jepp product would mean having to reduce the amount of releases and increase staffing by quite a bit.

The issue is native Sabre is getting too old. The technology is so out of date that they have not taught programmers the language in several decades. The programmers that know it are disappearing due to age. They need to move away from Sabre DECS but the new one to do the same functions as the old one.

With new management in dispatch and Flight Ops having a strong NWA element, we have no clue how they will deal with the issue of an ageing platform and the current available products to replace it. AA put a ton of money into the jepp system and many will want to see the investment show results.

Unless Jeppesen has come out with something new (or is working on it), their main engine is Jetplan which is probably just as ancient as Sabre. They have a number of different GUI interfaces but it's just Jetplan in the background and probably the weakest system out there. I've used Sabre and it's heaven compared to Jeppesen's Jetplan.

 

[LowBypass]

Whats going on regarding the 545 side of things? I was hoping this would be going a lot smoother than our negotiation honestly. Ours though is mostly management dragging their feet.

 

[BigFellor]

I think we will see one side either force a contract through or cave on things. TWU 542 believes getting pay raises out of the current management will be difficult but if we have a modified version of the current AA contract then it would allow for a contractual pay raise which makes the payscale the average of the other majors along with the contractual fuel performance bonus. If no agreement with US TWU 545 is reached, AA dispatchers will likely lose out on a lot of money since the US Airways pay will bring down the pay scale when averaged out with the other majors.

TWU 542 is trying to get permission from the international union to bypass the negotiating process with TWU 545 and agree with management on a TA for the group as a whole. The international union has not given its opinion on the matter yet. I think if the international rules against TWU 542, you might see 542 try to sweeten the deal for Airways by caving on certain things in order to get a deal done before the contractual pay raise occurs.

If not deal were to get done, expect it to take even longer than the AA/Continental one because of how different the two groups are.

Out of curiosity, where did you get that information? If true it's nice to know 542 has the interest of it's members in mind while screwing the US group. The only reason to do that is because management knows there is no chance US will "adopt and go" with the AA contract.

From what we're hearing on the US side, TWU 542 is keeping the AA dispatchers in the dark about our contract and what is in it. I'd love to know if that's really the case and what the AA dispatchers actually know of our contract, and their thoughts on it. From my understanding it's superior in a lot of ways, pay not being one.

 

[BigFellor]

Whats going on regarding the 545 side of things? I was hoping this would be going a lot smoother than our negotiation honestly. Ours though is mostly management dragging their feet.

One of our issues is management dragging their feet; they were putting off forming any kind of transition / negotiation team and cancelling meetings on us. It's my opinion that a lot of the negotiations between 542 and 545 should have been taken care of a long time ago.

This is going to be about as smooth as a space shuttle lift-off. As Flagship said, these are two groups that are polar opposites and have a completely different way of working. Aside from contract issues the dispatch group is not happy about the whole "adopt and go" process that's been put in place and I'd be willing to bet that dispatch isn't the only group unhappy about that.

 

[69beers]

TWU 542 is trying to get permission from the international union to bypass the negotiating process with TWU 545 and agree with management on a TA for the group as a whole.

That sounds like a JP move. At least he's not trying to get more fellow TWU dispatchers stapled to the bottom of the seniority list like he did with the TWA merger.....yet

Way to take care of your TWU brothers and sisters again, JP.

What a f***ing weasel!!!!!

 

[BigFellor]

That sounds like a JP move. At least he's not trying to get more fellow TWU dispatchers stapled to the bottom of the seniority list like he did with the TWA merger.....yet

Way to take care of your TWU brothers and sisters again, JP.

What a f***ing weasel!!!!!

Typical union thuggery. But if he is trying I guess I shouldn't be surprised and will just say, way to introduce a little more animosity. You'd think things would be a bit smoother with TWU on both sides.

Word from the ranks of 545 is they can't make an agreement that includes US without well, INCLUDING US.

I'd still like to know what AA knows of the US contract and their thoughts on the two.

 

[PlaneFan82]

Get rid of the Totally Worthless Union and go with PAFCA.

 

[69beers]

Get rid of the Totally Worthless Union and go with PAFCA.

The concept of PAFCA seems appealing, but the reality is that most dispatch groups are not in the labor/management environment for this to be realistic. A 100% self sustained union (67 dispatchers in my case) without any international backing or resources would last until the deadlocked grievance, or the first contract negotiation, or worse yet a strike. By self sustained I mean all time off for union business is covered by the union, all arbitration expenses, all negotiation expenses, all lawyer costs to represent a member to get a bogus FAA LOI tossed out during an NTSB investigation, all lawyer expenses to represent the union during an NTSB investigation and hearing, etc.

I would love to bail from TWU and my group have complete control over our decisions. I would also love to be in a local that was not dominated by one section's votes by a 3:1ratio. However, my working environment and number of union dispatchers simply doesn't support the math requirements to be independent without the company indirectly propping up the union by "forgiving" these expenses or raising dues to something not acceptable to most. There's always the IBT or IAM, but I prefer to be represented by a union that has the majority of unionized dispatch groups under their name.

 

[just_blaze]

Hearing some rumors on a brand new SOC to be built for the joint AA/US operation that would ultimately delay US move to DFW. Any truth? Heard US came down and said not enough room in the current facility.

 

[BigFellor]

Hearing some rumors on a brand new SOC to be built for the joint AA/US operation that would ultimately delay US move to DFW. Any truth? Heard US came down and said not enough room in the current facility.

God, I hope not. To anything that would delay the move.

 

[Flagship_dxer]

It is not a rumor. Word from AA management is that there is not enough room in the current IOC. They are looking at places to buy or build a new IOC. Unknown if this will delay Airways coming down. They might move Airways into Eagle current SOC and try to wait until the new building is ready before combining everything.

 

[BigFellor]

It is not a rumor. Word from AA management is that there is not enough room in the current IOC. They are looking at places to buy or build a new IOC. Unknown if this will delay Airways coming down. They might move Airways into Eagle current SOC and try to wait until the new building is ready before combining everything.

 

[BruinsFan]

I talked to Kimball Stone about this a few weeks ago. Basically there is a chance that the IOC will move, but there are other options on the table to keep the IOC where it is, and the company is looking at all options. I can tell you that looking at floorplans of the exisiting IOC, it is very crowded in there with just the AA operations, and there is no way that US could fit in there unless some groups (MOC, Future Crew Scheduling, CLP, and the like) were moved into the old Eagle SOC and thus the appropriate US groups could move in to the IOC. There are some issues though, for example US uses planning units and AA does not, so if the planning units that US uses stay in place, those do take up some room.

My gut feeling is that the IOC is going to end up in the area where it currently is, on FAA Blvd. Whether a new facility is built between the flight academy and the Res center, or the current one is expanded is something that remains to be seen. Mr. Stone did tell me that ergonomics would play a huge role in the decision making process for the new facility, and that AA is even looking at putting mood lighting in a new facility if it is built.