AA Updates

[BruinsFan]

I read Flagships post a little more closely after my last post. He is right about the two year commitment, but AA also has a two year commitment in their contract to anyone who bids international, and that is division specific at AA. (AA has international broken up into three divisions, where at US there is only one and any international dispatcher can and will work any international flight) The way I understand it at USAirways, an international relief line can pick up shifts on either domestic or international. (I have heard plenty of guys working both in one week) Additionally anyone who maintains an international qualification can pick up international shifts even if domestic. (I am not 100 percent sure on thins). Typically the new hires will get signed off domestically and will be domestic relief dispatchers and can only pick up domestic shifts. A dispatcher won't complete international initial until they bid a position that requires it. I actually like this better than how AA is currently doing it. You are learning enough in initial training between Sabre, new fleet types, new manuals, and company procedures that I think it really helps to get a feel for all the stuff domestically before you go international, and there is a lot of additional info that comes with working international. It helps a lot to get comfortable domestically before you really overload your brain. I wish that AA would go this route, as their training seems hard enough as it is.

One nice thing about US is there is an override that gets added to an international dispatchers pay check, which means you get more money working international than domestic. AA does not have this in their contract, and I pray this is something that ends up in a joint contract.

 

[just_blaze]

Realistically how soon can we expect a joint contract? UA/CO still working on theirs and it has been years since the "merger".

 

[Flagship_dxer]

A joint contract might come soon. Even though it may seem like both sides are far apart, money talks. The pay raise will be substantial if agreed to quickly but if not the pay will be not as good. If the deal doesnt get done to allow the industry average adjustment to raise the pay rates, it will likely take many years to get a deal done.

US dispatchers like their schedule and likely wont budge or compromise. AA dispatchers want the money and might be enticed into taking a deal they may not like for the extra money.

 

[BruinsFan]

The Pay Comparison Flagship refers to doesn't kick in until 2016 per the contract. So there is plenty of time to get a joint contract in the meantime and not lose the pay comparison, despite what 542 may be telling its own members.

Realistically how soon can we expect a joint contract? UA/CO still working on theirs and it has been years since the "merger".

It is tough to say. Both sides want the money, that is clear. Keep in mind that Local 545 is in the middle of an officer election vote, and it is possible that the leadership on the 545 side may be different after 5 pm tomorrow. Also note that many members of 545 at USAirways were at one time a part of 542 when America West was still around. There are plenty of other factors going on behind the scenes of which I won't get into here. I do think the international at the moment wants to get this done ASAP as do both sides. I can tell you that the US Airways group wants the current schedule, the planning units, and all the benefits and 401k kept in tact as is written. (The Schedule is a matter of opinion as are the planning units, but AA guys are paying more for their health care and have a less generous 401k package than the US guys do) One other thing that I have heard is that 542 is negotiating where when the pay comparison is done, the pay rate takes into account the fuel incentive. So lets say year 3 ends up being 65,000 for example. I have heard that what 542 is trying to do is make it so that the 65,000 breaks down as 53,000 and the 12,000 or whatever for the fuel incentive. 545 also wants the comparison, but they want the 65,000 as the base pay, and if there is a fuel incentive, it be added on top of that, which would end up coming in at 77,000 in my example. (Not actual numbers, but I am using them to illustrate my point)

Another little known factor in the pay comparison is that John Plowman (542 president) is also responsible for being part of the joint contract negotiations at United as the former CO dispatchers are still part of 542. I don't know when those will be resolved, but clearly what happens at United will affect AA/US going forward and given the awful financials I have seen from United as of late, that makes me a bit nervous.

 

[Bogey2]

BruinsFan,
Just to clear up some things. The pay comparison letter comes into play September 2015, per the contract.
If a Senior US Dispatcher wants to work straight mids at AA, he can. Wont be a problem. In fact, he can have my 5 weeks. .
We have trade partners here also, so if you want to work all days or all afternoons, you can. Our earliest shift start time is 0500 local, I wake up at 0400. Our local gave us all a copy of the Joint CBA proposal. It was made up of the best of both contracts. It put a 50/50 proposal on work schedules. So we all have seen a full copy of every article in your agreement. You have a few things that I like and I hope we can come to an agreement on those items. But here is something to think about, regardless of how the comparison plays, your own President said in a news article about 8 weeks ago that your guys are being screwed because the AA dispatchers make 25k more a year. How long do you want to hold out on a comparison of 53k or 65k when you are behind 25k a year. By the time 2 years passes in this merger you will have made 50k less then an AA guy. Is the 2 or 3 dollar difference in hourly pay going to make that much of a difference? 3 dollars at 1752 hours (AA hours of work) is 5256 a year. So after two years, it will take 9 years to make up the pay you are not getting now.

 

[Bogey2]

BruinsFan,
Here is the language out of the agreement,,, despite what 545 is telling its members.

At September 12, 2012+36 months, a calculation will be made to determine the maximum regular hourly pay rate

 

[BigFellor]

BruinsFan,
Just to clear up some things. The pay comparison letter comes into play September 2015, per the contract.
If a Senior US Dispatcher wants to work straight mids at AA, he can. Wont be a problem. In fact, he can have my 5 weeks. .
We have trade partners here also, so if you want to work all days or all afternoons, you can. Our earliest shift start time is 0500 local, I wake up at 0400. Our local gave us all a copy of the Joint CBA proposal.

A joint CBA for who? US/AA or UA/CO?

 

[Bogey2]

The joint CBA proposal, prepared by local 542, for the aa/us merger was given to the local 542 membership. Local 545 may have had a different proposal and obviously, neither have been made to the company.

 

[BigFellor]

The joint CBA proposal, prepared by local 542, for the aa/us merger was given to the local 542 membership. Local 545 may have had a different proposal and obviously, neither have been made to the company.

Interesting. Have a copy of it?

If it was "prepared by 542", I'd hardly call it a "joint proposal".

 

[manniax]

Another little known factor in the pay comparison is that John Plowman (542 president) is also responsible for being part of the joint contract negotiations at United as the former CO dispatchers are still part of 542. I don't know when those will be resolved, but clearly what happens at United will affect AA/US going forward and given the awful financials I have seen from United as of late, that makes me a bit nervous.

Ratification vote is on the 16th for the new UA TA. Pay details have been discussed elsewhere so I won't go into specifics here but I think they are better than either AA or US currently has - fuel bonus included.

 

[Bogey2]

Well yes, everyone at 542 was given a copy. Do I have a copy for you? Well I don't really know you well enough yet.


Say what you want, but it's both contracts together with the old language struck and remaining language left in place. We can see everything. It's the best of both contracts.

In the end, the dispatchers at AA really don't care if we get a deal quickly. Yes, we could miss a few bucks on the comparison, but for the most part, they bring nothing substantial to the table that would rush us to a deal. They work more hours, but less days. We make a lot more money and we have 4 more raises in the current agreement.

 

[BruinsFan]

BruinsFan,
Here is the language out of the agreement,,, despite what 545 is telling its members.

At September 12, 2012+36 months, a calculation will be made to determine the maximum regular hourly pay rate

Actually, 545 has not mentioned the comparison too much. I do have a copy of the AA contract and I miscalculated the 36 months in the contract, so blame me for that post, not 545. What I do know is that 545 has recently said that the comparison in question will not include US Airways, joint contract or not, and that the US Airways employees and AA employees will end up on the same scale after the comparison, so we will have a joint deal there.

That being said, if 542 has a proposal for the joint contract, I would like to see it myself. I would like for JP and 542 leadership to send us some copies. I may or may not agree with it, but since this is going to be affecting me, and I would have to vote on it, I want to know what it is they are proposing, although I don't like that this is a unilateral approach and that 542 isn't talking to 545 like they should. There are a lot of good things in the 545 contract though that I want to see stay around. Things like Health Insurance contributions, 401(k) match, company holidays, the 4244 schedule as opposed to the 636366 schedule, pay overrides for International dispatchers, the Earned Compensation Bank, are all aspects of the US Airways contract that I think are better then the AA contract. Likewise, the fuel bonus is something in the AA contract that we don't have in the US contract, and it is the big reason AA guys are making 25k more than the US guys, and it is something that 545 is trying to get right away, but the company keeps saying no because they feel we already have a contract and want to honor it.

In any case, I think 542 leadership needs to come to PIT and talk to the US group, and that 545 leadership needs to go to DFW and do the same. We are all going to be bound by the same contract in the future, so shouldn't we all be working together towards that end?

 

[Bogey2]

Bruin,
What you need to understand is, if we get a joint cab before September, the comparison will not include US, which drives the industry average down. If US pay scale still in the mix, a scale that is lower then AA, it stifles the potential raise. Dividing by 3 vs 4 works in our favor. Think about that.

Ask your president for a company of the 542 proposal. If they won't give you one, I'll send you one.

Good things are subjective. Your work schedule is what you know and I'm sure their are pros and cons. Same for us, pros and cons, it's what we know. The bottom line for most of us is this, we like the 8 hour shift and we like the fact that we work over 200 less hours. When calculating rate a pay for holidays and overtime, less hours of work equates into a higher hourly rate.

True, the fuel deal is part of why why we make more, not the only reason. It's paid out every year in full and has already paid out the first quarter and will pay the second too. However we did it, our contract is 25k richer and I doubt you will see that until after there is a joint cba. It's up to your leaders to figure it out. They came here in January and then did not communicate with our leaders for 7 weeks at all. I guess that's their strategy. Our leaders indicate to us and to your president that we are ready to talk at any point in time.

You are right, we all need to work together in the future. Let's hope our leaders figure it out soon.

 

[BruinsFan]

Bogey, we are being told by our leadership that US will not be included in any pay comparison period, joint contract or no. This is something that apparently has been agreed to by both the Union and the company. That being said, I was not at that union meeting because the union meeting was held at a time while I was at work, and I could not make it, but I really wanted to.

As for communication between our groups, my understanding is that 545 went to Dallas to meet with the company. When they arrived they were told the negotiations were suspended because 542 had told them that we had backed out, despite the fact that we were there. 542's statement later said they missed the session due to having to deal with United integration issues. Our leadership has tried time and time again to get a hold of 542 and talk things out, but it seems like 542 is having none of it, not returning any calls, and a letter I have seen that was sent to the TWU international from JP only serves to make me really mistrust 542 leadership. Aside from the fuel bonus, I don't see how the AA contract is 25K richer, when the monthly rates are nearly the same, and AA dispatchers are working more days than US dispatchers, and AA dispatchers are paying more for benefits than their US brethren are.

As for the 8 hour work schedule...I will PM you about that, as there are aspects to that in the US culture that I do not wish to share publicly.

 

[pljenkins]

Is this a tentative agreement you are talking about? If not I don't think it would be appropriate for the local to make details of the proposals available to the membership. There will be many many proposals put fourth, and some of them are going to be miles away from realistic. If the bargaining group were to make public every proposal they would have to continually answer to the membership as to why this is on the table, or why that was negotiated away.

Contacts are like sausage. You don't want to know how they're made, you just want it to be delicious in the end. Let the negotiating team so their job and present to you a tentative agreement. If you don't agree with the TA, vote against it.

 

[BigFellor]

Bogey, we are being told by our leadership that US will not be included in any pay comparison period, joint contract or no. This is something that apparently has been agreed to by both the Union and the company. That being said, I was not at that union meeting because the union meeting was held at a time while I was at work, and I could not make it, but I really wanted to.

As for communication between our groups, my understanding is that 545 went to Dallas to meet with the company. When they arrived they were told the negotiations were suspended because 542 had told them that we had backed out, despite the fact that we were there. 542's statement later said they missed the session due to having to deal with United integration issues. Our leadership has tried time and time again to get a hold of 542 and talk things out, but it seems like 542 is having none of it, not returning any calls, and a letter I have seen that was sent to the TWU international from JP only serves to make me really mistrust 542 leadership. Aside from the fuel bonus, I don't see how the AA contract is 25K richer, when the monthly rates are nearly the same, and AA dispatchers are working more days than US dispatchers, and AA dispatchers are paying more for benefits than their US brethren are.

As for the 8 hour work schedule...I will PM you about that, as there are aspects to that in the US culture that I do not wish to share publicly.

Yes indeed. The way I approach the 8 hour vs 9.5 hour schedules is this; you're already there for 8 hours, why not one more and make that one less day a week you have to drive into work (or two I suppose).

545 is fighting an uphill battle against the company, 542, and the International from everything we have seen to date.

I'd love to see a copy of the current AA contract and the unilateral proposal JP has put together. Since our union "leadership" is keeping us in the dark about such things, I seriously doubt we'll be given a copy of either. From my understanding though the US contract is superior in every way, aside from the fuel bonus, for all the reasons Bruins mentioned.

 

[BruinsFan]

Is this a tentative agreement you are talking about? If not I don't think it would be appropriate for the local to make details of the proposals available to the membership. There will be many many proposals put fourth, and some of them are going to be miles away from realistic. If the bargaining group were to make public every proposal they would have to continually answer to the membership as to why this is on the table, or why that was negotiated away.

Contacts are like sausage. You don't want to know how they're made, you just want it to be delicious in the end. Let the negotiating team so their job and present to you a tentative agreement. If you don't agree with the TA, vote against it.

This is another thing that got 545 upset. They don't like the fact that 542 has tipped their hand and made the negotiations a more difficult process.

 

[BigFellor]

Is this a tentative agreement you are talking about? If not I don't think it would be appropriate for the local to make details of the proposals available to the membership. There will be many many proposals put fourth, and some of them are going to be miles away from realistic. If the bargaining group were to make public every proposal they would have to continually answer to the membership as to why this is on the table, or why that was negotiated away.

Contacts are like sausage. You don't want to know how they're made, you just want it to be delicious in the end. Let the negotiating team so their job and present to you a tentative agreement. If you don't agree with the TA, vote against it.

I'm failing to see why answering to your membership why you are negotiating what you are is a bad thing??

And no, this isn't a tentative agreement. This is a unilateral attempt by the leadership of 542 to shut out 545. Plain and simple.

 

[BruinsFan]

Big Fellor, there is a copy of the AA contract on the 545 website if you want to read it.

 

[Bogey2]

BigFellor, it would appear you have hard feelings about something. You don't really have all the facts as your leadership keeps you in the dark as Bruin said. 542 is keeping members in the loop.

Nobody attempted to do anything unilateral. Both groups went thru the same process. 545 put together there own proposal. 542 proposal is simple, best of both.

Would love to hear what makes US superior? We make more base and have more raises to come. We do have the fuel.
We have double time, does US? I couldn't find it.
Vacation: AA tops at 29, US at 24 days
Holidays: US 9. AA 5
Hours per year: AA 1752 US 1976
Days per year: US 208? AA 219
Higher hourly rate AA due less hours work.
401k US 9 percent AA 5.5


I just don't see a superiority.