AA Pilot disciplined for taxiing too slow

excuse me while i grab some popcorn and enjoy the preview of my (possible) future career

:nana2:
:yeahthat:.....and yet, even though I know what I'm getting into....the dream is as strong today as the day i solo'd...good times.
As for the situation....:banghead:...nuff said.
 
ALPA has nothing to do with this. The pilots at American are represented by the APA, a completely separate union.

Yep, see page 226, Ch.21 of "Flying the Line". "Origins of the AAL Split"


There are many things that can be done outside of the cockpit. I won't get into specifics, but many things have been done for years to SCABs. There are ways to exert immense peer pressure without it ever taking place on the flight deck. As far as what happens on the flight deck, I think the APA's recommendation to simply not talk to them is the best way to go.

SCABS? You mean the ones who voted themselves back into ALPA with no penalty or back dues, or the ones who crossed a picket line?

I do agree with AA pilots not talking to Mgt. pilots about anything outside that particular flight. Make your required calls, no more.

"immense peer pressure"? [sigh]
 
To your employer, you are nothing but an expendable asset, to be used up and discarded when you are no longer useful.

Going to disagree with you on this Tony (for the most part). If you make yourself an asset to the company, the company should return the favor to keep you around. The goal is keeping yourself on the asset side once you get there. I'm a contractor, paid what I believe I'm worth (realistically) and I'm still here doing what I do for one of my client (my primary). Others have not (employees) and they are gone. In my industry you have to show your worth, or be gone. The economy hasn't help lately here in OH, the client keeps telling people they should be happy to have a job, but when I asked for a rate increase because of the emergancy MX trip I took, and the new business I just brought in, he did have to agree with me. I will admit he didn't like it, or want to do it, but he knows the value I bring to the table for his business. I am guessing the same is for you, you don't produce and you will be gone (or have you changed jobs and I missed it?).
 
I am guessing the same is for you, you don't produce and you will be gone (or have you changed jobs and I missed it?).

Nope, nothing's changed.

If I deliver revenue, they keep me around and they compensate me for it.

But the second I stop delivering enough revenue for them, I'll hear about it. And if I stop delivering enough revenue to them for too long, my ass is out the door.
 
SCABS? You mean the ones who voted themselves back into ALPA with no penalty or back dues, or the ones who crossed a picket line?

I assume you're talking about the CAL SCABs. They didn't "vote themselves" back into ALPA. The ALPA Board of Directors voted to allow them back in in order to facilitate the merger of the IACP so we could get back all of the loyal CAL strikers. The BOD didn't like approving it, but it was better than turning their backs on the loyal CAL pilots.
 
I assume you're talking about the CAL SCABs. They didn't "vote themselves" back into ALPA. The ALPA Board of Directors voted to allow them back in in order to facilitate the merger of the IACP so we could get back all of the loyal CAL strikers. The BOD didn't like approving it, but it was better than turning their backs on the loyal CAL pilots.

What is life like for those guys?

Are they pretty much ostracized?
 
What is life like for those guys?

Are they pretty much ostracized?

A lot of the CAL pilots refuse to speak to them, but there isn't widespread harassment like there is for SCABs at other companies. UAL SCABs were treated so horribly that a lot of them ended up quitting because they couldn't deal with it anymore. That never happened at CAL because the SCABs were in the majority for a very long time. There are still about 700 of them even now, 25 years later.
 
Going to disagree with you on this Tony (for the most part). If you make yourself an asset to the company, the company should return the favor to keep you around. The goal is keeping yourself on the asset side once you get there. I'm a contractor, paid what I believe I'm worth (realistically) and I'm still here doing what I do for one of my client (my primary). Others have not (employees) and they are gone. In my industry you have to show your worth, or be gone. The economy hasn't help lately here in OH, the client keeps telling people they should be happy to have a job, but when I asked for a rate increase because of the emergancy MX trip I took, and the new business I just brought in, he did have to agree with me. I will admit he didn't like it, or want to do it, but he knows the value I bring to the table for his business. I am guessing the same is for you, you don't produce and you will be gone (or have you changed jobs and I missed it?).

I think those are the keys words in your post. In your industry (and many others) this is true. However, in regards to the thread itself and airline pilots doesn't matter. Like others have said, get what you can because they would be happy to have a monkey doing the job if they could figure how to make it happen. Our compensation doesn't reflect our worth....merely what we can fight for.

Hope that made sense...typing quickly...need to get back to the grind.
 
The goal is to figure out how to make your industry, like my industry. Easiest way would be a combined seniority list so you could change companies an not have to start all over again.

I know, its easy. :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
 
By the way, has it occurred to anybody that perhaps this AA pilot really was taxiing too slow, wasting fuel, delaying flights, miscconnecting passengers?
 
By the way, has it occurred to anybody that perhaps this AA pilot really was taxiing too slow, wasting fuel, delaying flights, miscconnecting passengers?

That's not up to you to decide. He's the PIC, and he's the ultimate authority on his flights. If he feels that taxiing at 3 knots is the appropriate speed, then that's his decision. If he feels that delaying a flight is prudent, then that's his decision to make. If he feels that running both engines all the time is the only safe way to operate his flights, then that's his decision. We don't need a bunch of management fair-weather flyers making decisions for real line Captains.
 
By the way, has it occurred to anybody that perhaps this AA pilot really was taxiing too slow, wasting fuel, delaying flights, miscconnecting passengers?

If taxiing at 5 knots instead of 10 knots for a mile in from the runway is going to delay flights and cause misconnects then the taxi speed is not the problem.
 
That's not up to you to decide. He's the PIC, and he's the ultimate authority on his flights. If he feels that taxiing at 3 knots is the appropriate speed, then that's his decision. If he feels that delaying a flight is prudent, then that's his decision to make. If he feels that running both engines all the time is the only safe way to operate his flights, then that's his decision. We don't need a bunch of management fair-weather flyers making decisions for real line Captains.

When you're driving down the highway at 55 or 60 mph along with the rest of the traffic, and suddenly come up on some guy doing 30 mph and being a hazard to the road, what is your first thought? Is it "Gee he must know what he is doing because he is the one driving the car?" Or is it "What the heck is this yahoo doing?" I'm guessing it's likely the latter.

Certainly the PIC is in command of his flight, and he bears the ultimate authority. But he also bears the ultimate responsibility. That means he had better be able to explain why every other plane on the taxiway was moving along at 15 or 20 knots while he was doing 5 or less. If he can't perhaps the suspension was deserved.
 
You're allowed to stop the plane, too...

When you're driving down the highway at 55 or 60 mph along with the rest of the traffic, and suddenly come up on some guy doing 30 mph and being a hazard to the road, what is your first thought? Is it "Gee he must know what he is doing because he is the one driving the car?" Or is it "What the heck is this yahoo doing?" I'm guessing it's likely the latter.

Certainly the PIC is in command of his flight, and he bears the ultimate authority. But he also bears the ultimate responsibility. That means he had better be able to explain why every other plane on the taxiway was moving along at 15 or 20 knots while he was doing 5 or less. If he can't perhaps the suspension was deserved.

I do not agree with that.

Driving at 60MPH and overtaking someone who is going 30 is a lot different than taxiing an airliner at 5-10 knots instead of 10-20.


There is no minimum taxi speed.​


We do not know what was going on in that cockpit and we do not know how the chief pilot defines too slow. We don't even know if the chief pilot is able to use good judgement. He apparently defines taxiing while on his cell phone safe.
 
When you're driving down the highway at 55 or 60 mph along with the rest of the traffic, and suddenly come up on some guy doing 30 mph and being a hazard to the road, what is your first thought? Is it "Gee he must know what he is doing because he is the one driving the car?" Or is it "What the heck is this yahoo doing?" I'm guessing it's likely the latter.

Not analogous, since most highways have posted minimum speed limits. In GA, the minimum speed on the interstate is 40 mph. If everyone else is doing 75 and some "yahoo" is doing the minimum of 40, then he is accountable to no one. Since there is no such thing as a regulatory minimum taxi speed, Captains are to use their discretion. If a Captain decides that 3 knots is the prudent speed, then that's what he should do, and with no questions asked by you or anyone else.

Certainly the PIC is in command of his flight, and he bears the ultimate authority. But he also bears the ultimate responsibility. That means he had better be able to explain why every other plane on the taxiway was moving along at 15 or 20 knots while he was doing 5 or less. If he can't perhaps the suspension was deserved.

He doesn't have to explain himself to anyone. He is the PIC. Period. End of discussion. Unless a regulation is being violated, no one should be questioning his final decisions. I always used to taxi slow when I was a CA. If some CP had questioned me about it, the answer would have been a simple "it's none of your concern."
 
That's not up to you to decide. He's the PIC, and he's the ultimate authority on his flights. If he feels that taxiing at 3 knots is the appropriate speed, then that's his decision. If he feels that delaying a flight is prudent, then that's his decision to make. If he feels that running both engines all the time is the only safe way to operate his flights, then that's his decision. We don't need a bunch of management fair-weather flyers making decisions for real line Captains.

Dear God I hope no one actually listens to you.
 
Jeez, can't we keep this garbage in the Airline Pilots Forum... at least I know what I'm going to get when I read threads there.
 
An aircraft captain may be the final decision maker regarding the safe conduct of the flight, but certainly does not have carte blanche to do whatever he pleases without repercussions.
 
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