AA hiring rate and Envoy flow rant

[Cptnchia]

Shouldn't you post something up with girls then? Not women. Lot of women that are lawyers and scientists and they argue with facts and use logic. Little girls and little boys often don't I agree.

Or were you just trying to emasculate all of us? Did it work? Since the majority of us are men shouldn't it be "like little boys"?

Obviously you missed the point. And to compare women lawyers and scientists to these two drama queens is an insult to every woman laywer and scientist. Well done! However, there does appear to be some drama queens in this thread. Sorry if the reference was too obtuse. Excuse me for interupting another completely useless and not going to change anything or anybody's mind, round and round, waste of time. Have at them!

 

[jynxyjoe]

Obviously you missed the point. And to compare women lawyers and scientists to these two drama queens is an insult to every woman laywer and scientist. Well done! However, there does appear to be some drama queens in this thread. Sorry if the reference was too obtuse. Excuse me for interupting another completely useless and not going to change anything or anybody's mind, round and round, waste of time. Have at them!

I just thought you were being sexist and quite frankly no one missed the implication. Nice turn though me being the insulting one. If it wasn't so obvious I wasn't comparing them I'd apologize.
Thanks for stopping by.

 

[Cptnchia]

I just thought you were being sexist and quite frankly no one missed the implication. Nice turn though me being the insulting one. If it wasn't so obvious I wasn't comparing them I'd apologize.
Thanks for stopping by.

Nah, you just took the bait. There are way worse offenders here than you. However, it might be time to exit this train wreck.

 

[jynxyjoe]

Nah, you just took the bait. There are way worse offenders here than you. However, it might be time to exit this train wreck.

Again, thanks for stopping by.

 

[Kingairer]

One checkride? I took about eight of them at the regionals. You're thoroughly vetted by the time you'd reach your flow opportunity. And, again, this can't be overstated enough: you're already flying their passengers in airplanes painted in their colors.

The point is, once a new hire passes the initial check ride getting rid of them is much harder ans pretty rare. There needs to be another weeding out point.

 

[PhilosopherPilot]

No, absolutely not. Again, management is solely responsible for managing the airline. The union is not. Decisions to hire or fire are solely the purview of management (except when the CBA says something otherwise, as with agency shop provisions). If Pro Stands has dealt with someone so many times that they don't feel that they can do anything else, then they simply back away and no longer get involved. But never, under any circumstances, does the union tell the company to fire someone for Pro Stands related issues. Period. The entire integrity of the program would be eliminated if that were to be possible.

I'm not suggesting that they "tell" the company to fire someone.

 

[jynxyjoe]

I'm not suggesting that they "tell" the company to fire someone.

You're not?

 

[derg]

Great googly moogly, I've seen less drama on an episode of Dawson's Creek.

Oh Mr. Van Der Beek, I'm so sorry that @DPApilot grappled you for your iphone.

 

[PhilosopherPilot]

You're not?

I'm suggesting that both work together in that regard. I know at my last company it DID work that way to some extent. At least off record it did.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I'm suggesting that both work together in that regard. I know at my last company it DID work that way to some extent. At least off record it did.

BS.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

The point is, once a new hire passes the initial check ride getting rid of them is much harder ans pretty rare. There needs to be another weeding out point.

Believe me, that's a myth. Firing a pilot is actually quite easy. Companies just don't go to the effort. Why?

1) Mid-level airline management is largely incompetent

2) Training a replacement pilot is incredibly expensive

 

[jynxyjoe]

I'm suggesting that both work together in that regard. I know at my last company it DID work that way to some extent. At least off record it did.

I don't know what to tell you. Not every company is the same, not every union is the same. The company has singular authority on hiring and firing unless bobdduck can expand. At my former company pro stands had a dialogue but if the company chooses not to work with you you're kind of stonewalled.

Sometimes I think pilots believe their union is a real union, like a steel workers union or manufacturing union, at least how they are portrayed on tv and movies. The company has the power at airlines in the real world.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Sometimes I think pilots believe their union is a real union, like a steel workers union or manufacturing union, at least how they are portrayed on tv and movies. The company has the power at airlines in the real world.

Believe me, a steelworker's union would "counsel" some guy in a dark parking lot who suggested that the union should conspire with management to get rid of fellow union members.

 

[PhilosopherPilot]

BS.

Uh... You only know about your experiences. I know about my own closed door conversations.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Uh... You only know about your experiences. I know about my own closed door conversations.

I'm calling BS if you're claiming that the union was working with the company to discipline pilots. I don't care what somebody told you behind "closed doors." Sounds like someone telling some stories.

 

[jynxyjoe]

Believe me, a steelworker's union would "counsel" some guy in a dark parking lot who suggested that the union should conspire with management to get rid of fellow union members.

Sure. I meant people think our union can insist crap, and they have superpowers.

If they can insist on a guy getting fired why couldn't they insist we get our pay back or any number of any things. How the hell can a union survive in an airline when the pilots simultaneously believe the union is stupid, powerless, and yet all powerful. The union can direct where rjs go, they can get people fired or keep their job by insisting something. It's seriously like double think in here sometimes.

I always figured the auto worker and steel worker union were much more professional than the media pretends since their guys actually get paid well and have some unity.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Sure. I meant people think our union can insist crap, and they have superpowers.

True. People who think "demanding" things will be productive have never actually had to get anything done with the company. Carrots work better than sticks.

If they can insist on a guy getting fired why couldn't they insist we get our pay back or any number of any things. How the hell can a union survive in an airline when the pilots simultaneously believe the union is stupid, powerless, and yet all powerful. The union can direct where rjs go, they can get people fired or keep their job by insisting something. It's seriously like double think in here sometimes.

Tell me about it. Check out STW if you want to see some real delusion.

I always figured the auto worker and steel worker union were much more professional than the media pretends since their guys actually get paid well and have some unity.

That is true. When dealing with the company, they tend to be pretty buttoned up and productive in how they get things done. But when dealing with members who don't fall in line, they're definitely a different breed than pilots. In talking to other guys in the Transportation Trades Department, they get shocked when you mention something like scabs flying with members in good standing. They are just perplexed that we haven't bullied these people out of the cockpits. It's a different world. When you get away from the "white collar" delusion of airline pilots, real union members realize that unity is everything, and someone suggesting that union members should try to get other union members fired is anathema.

 

[Hacker15e]

I've seen less drama on an episode of Dawson's Creek.

You watch Dawson's Creek? haha.....

Erhm, of course, yes, Captain...what an excellent show, sir.

 

[SteveC]

Believe me, a steelworker's union would "counsel" some guy in a dark parking lot who suggested that the union should conspire with management to get rid of fellow union members.

I've had some experience with iron workers, machinists, and automotive unions over the past 35 years. I seldom agree with ATN_Pilot, but I will this time. Seen some things that still sound surreal when I talk about them. "Hey Vinney..."

 

[PhilosopherPilot]

I'm calling BS if you're claiming that the union was working with the company to discipline pilots. I don't care what somebody told you behind "closed doors." Sounds like someone telling some stories.

There's a fine line between "working with the company to discipline pilots" and "Hey Chief Pilot, Bob is all yours. We are done with him."

I guess my point is that I WISH unions worked that way, even if they don't exactly work that way now. ALPA claims to be all about protecting the integrity of the profession, so what better way to do so than to rid itself of the bad apples?