A strange one. PC12 crash

MikeD said:
while giving checkrides, I have the examinees do nearly everything raw data. Green needles on the Garmin, if you will. I’ll already get an idea if they know how to use the GPS by having them upload a notional ATC issued clearance from me, after they’ve inadvertently entered simulated IMC, and turn the clearance into a short flight plan, both enroute and approach. Then all that magenta gets zoomed out to infinity, and they have to fly the clearance with ground-based Nav to a ground-based full procedure instrument approach, all of which they will execute, to include any necessary holds or course reversals. The second approach will be a GPS based one, where they can just follow magenta lines on both the now-zoomed-in map as well as the HSI. No autopilot, as there isn’t one….yet….in these birds.
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But why? Just to be a dick? Give me the real world scenario where I’m shooting an all green needle approach with course reversals and holds in IMC for reasons.
 
MikeD said:
while giving checkrides, I have the examinees do nearly everything raw data. Green needles on the Garmin, if you will. I’ll already get an idea if they know how to use the GPS by having them upload a notional ATC issued clearance from me, after they’ve inadvertently entered simulated IMC, and turn the clearance into a short flight plan, both enroute and approach. Then all that magenta gets zoomed out to infinity, and they have to fly the clearance with ground-based Nav to a ground-based full procedure instrument approach, all of which they will execute, to include any necessary holds or course reversals. The second approach will be a GPS based one, where they can just follow magenta lines on both the now-zoomed-in map as well as the HSI. No autopilot, as there isn’t one….yet….in these birds.
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You’re a DPE?
 
NovemberEcho said:
Probably because they all showed she had no business being PIC in that plane.

Speaking of YouTube video crashes, anyone seen any Jerry videos recently?
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Her case was pretty egregious. If you're having to hand off workload to your non-pilot father while flying a Debonair, you have definitely have no business flying that airplane. I'd like to believe that if someone had sat her down and had a coming to jesus with her regarding her airmanship, she might still be alive. Why that didn't happen, I don't know, maybe it was because she was pretty and she had deep pockets. I can only hope the NTSB interviews the younger CFI that appears in some of her videos. He definitely didn't do her any favors.
 
Boris Badenov said:
I can't think of a plane I've flown that less needs an SFAR. The MU-2 training is for circumstances in which that aircraft gets a little bit dicey. The PC-12 doesn't ever get dicey, and I don't see how the SFAR training would do anything to tighten the loose nut behind the yoke.
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This is semantics and just an excuse to share this awesome video, but pull the stick pusher CB and move the CG aft and it becomes an exciting airplane. :p


View: https://youtu.be/VNRK2aUmWWI?si=xvzqrZy3IpXxwEhG
 
Every time I see a wing drop in that video above, I find myself involuntarily shouting.... Push....Roll ....Power .... Stabilize!!

Several cycles of CQ indoctrination must be having its desired effect
 
Wardogg said:
But why? Just to be a dick? Give me the real world scenario where I’m shooting an all green needle approach with course reversals and holds in IMC for reasons.
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I'm kind of afraid I couldn't do it myself but this would prove without a single doubt the candidate could build a mental picture of the approach and hold without any electronic maps.

The examiner who did my IFR checkride just pulled out an approach plate and ask me where are you on this chart. It was paper of course.

I used to be able to do it with some practice. But it hasn't been necessary for a couple decades now.
 
MikeD said:
while giving checkrides, I have the examinees do nearly everything raw data. Green needles on the Garmin, if you will. I’ll already get an idea if they know how to use the GPS by having them upload a notional ATC issued clearance from me, after they’ve inadvertently entered simulated IMC, and turn the clearance into a short flight plan, both enroute and approach. Then all that magenta gets zoomed out to infinity, and they have to fly the clearance with ground-based Nav to a ground-based full procedure instrument approach, all of which they will execute, to include any necessary holds or course reversals. The second approach will be a GPS based one, where they can just follow magenta lines on both the now-zoomed-in map as well as the HSI. No autopilot, as there isn’t one….yet….in these birds.
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Do you brief all that prior to the checkride or do you just take away the toys at some point in the flight?
 
MikeD said:
while giving checkrides, I have the examinees do nearly everything raw data. Green needles on the Garmin, if you will. I’ll already get an idea if they know how to use the GPS by having them upload a notional ATC issued clearance from me, after they’ve inadvertently entered simulated IMC, and turn the clearance into a short flight plan, both enroute and approach. Then all that magenta gets zoomed out to infinity, and they have to fly the clearance with ground-based Nav to a ground-based full procedure instrument approach, all of which they will execute, to include any necessary holds or course reversals. The second approach will be a GPS based one, where they can just follow magenta lines on both the now-zoomed-in map as well as the HSI. No autopilot, as there isn’t one….yet….in these birds.
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Some folks are taking @MikeD to task for this method of testing, and I agree that for the candidate it’s not easy. But being able to successfully complete this sort of checkride is a good thing: it determines whether or not the pilot is prepared for a possible GPS outage. It shows him that he needs to keep his ground-based navs tuned to useful frequencies. It should help him with situational awareness.

At some point we’re going to have a GPS failure, whether it’s in the avionics of an individual plane or a wide-area failure. If a candidate arrived at a checkride unprepared to fly the way it’s described above they probably got shortchanged in training.
 
Plata said:
Some folks are taking @MikeD to task for this method of testing, and I agree that for the candidate it’s not easy. But being able to successfully complete this sort of checkride is a good thing: it determines whether or not the pilot is prepared for a possible GPS outage. It shows him that he needs to keep his ground-based navs tuned to useful frequencies. It should help him with situational awareness.

At some point we’re going to have a GPS failure, whether it’s in the avionics of an individual plane or a wide-area failure. If a candidate arrived at a checkride unprepared to fly the way it’s described above they probably got shortchanged in training.
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Yeah, not sure if @MikeD is talking CBP, Mil, or his 121 bonus job, but all the military checkrides I gave were basically as he described. Pretty standard, really. The only big difference is we had autopilots and did iterations with and without it.
 
Plata said:
Some folks are taking @MikeD to task for this method of testing, and I agree that for the candidate it’s not easy. But being able to successfully complete this sort of checkride is a good thing: it determines whether or not the pilot is prepared for a possible GPS outage. It shows him that he needs to keep his ground-based navs tuned to useful frequencies. It should help him with situational awareness.

At some point we’re going to have a GPS failure, whether it’s in the avionics of an individual plane or a wide-area failure. If a candidate arrived at a checkride unprepared to fly the way it’s described above they probably got shortchanged in training.
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Sure... but lots of those things can be training events and not testing events.
 
FlyingAccountant said:
It wasn't the last one, but there was one in Florida a few years back that resembles this one. Guy lost control of perfectly good airplane at cruising altitude after the AP disconnected and overspeeded the airplane until it disintegrated in mid air.

The wings folded upward and the tip of one of them ended up breaking one of the fuselage windows. The passenger sitting at the window, the guy's son, was sucked out and ended up being found a mile away from where the rest of the fuselage impacted. Real nightmare fuel.

www.aopa.org

NTSB: Inexperience a factor in 2012 crash

Unfamiliarity with a newly purchased turboprop proved fatal for a Kansas family returning from a Bahamas vacation in 2012, the NTSB determined.
www.aopa.org
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Not a huge fan of Youtubers, but this guy did a pretty good video on the topic. He hits a lot of the points we already discussed in this thread. Anyone know if he's a member here?


View: https://youtu.be/P0llpl-V32U?si=V7trYqJRLIvCbcZE
 
Skåning said:
When I go I need a friend to just delete my browser history.
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Do you have one of these?

1724721378776.png
 
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