9L, 9E, XJ JCBA Actual Language

[SrFnFly227]

There will be a conference call for those who could not attend the roadshows. The negotiating committees and your reps are well versed in the language of the contract and are more than willing to answer your questions. If you have any questions that can wait a week I'll be more than happy to help answer them.

I know this was directed at Colgan guys, but is that call open to everybody? If not, can any Pinnacle guys tell me if there will be a similar call for us? I have no flight privileges as I am out on OJI, but I would to get an answer to a few questions.

 

[CAPIP1998]

I know this was directed at Colgan guys, but is that call open to everybody? If not, can any Pinnacle guys tell me if there will be a similar call for us? I have no flight privileges as I am out on OJI, but I would to get an answer to a few questions.

If we have any conference calls they will be available to ALL pilots. We are one pilot group going forward, and just like there are no carrier specific roadshows there will be no carrier specific calls.

 

[Hernandezcfi]

TDY is done a little different here at 9L. Some do not understand the true meaning to certain phrases. Junior man, extended, TDY come to mind, but then again being in the top 10% of FO's I seem to get junior manned like it is going out of style!

Ben, things are going to change here in a flash. I urge you to attend the roadshows to get your questions answered. There will be a conference call for those who could not attend the roadshows. The negotiating committees and your reps are well versed in the language of the contract and are more than willing to answer your questions. If you have any questions that can wait a week I'll be more than happy to help answer them.

Yeah, I always considered an out of base reserve assignment "TDY" and that 4 hour thing does not effect me but I was curious. I will be flying during the IAD roadshow so I will keep my ears to the street about the conference call.

 

[kellwolf]

I know this was directed at Colgan guys, but is that call open to everybody? If not, can any Pinnacle guys tell me if there will be a similar call for us? I have no flight privileges as I am out on OJI, but I would to get an answer to a few questions.

At least one of the roadshows is gonna be video taped and put on the website for viewing. There was talk of a "webinar" road show as well, but I don't know the technology involved in that. I've been trying to bone up on 95% of the contract, and I think I have a fair handle on most of it. If I don't I can at least point people in the right direction...

 

[v1valarob]

We are starting to see subtle introduction of Mesaba stuff at Colgan. Our RCP posted a Mesaba management tree. We also just received a new CFM revision that includes "Fuel Quantity and Balance Checked" in the cruise checklist, which it says is a GAP agreement between Mesaba and Colgan.

 

[Teller1900]

WRT the requirements for ratification...does it require the majority of the entire group (.5*(9L+9E+XJ)), or is it a majority of each individual pilot group (.5*(9L)+.5*(9E)+.5*(XJ))? And is it a majority of eligible voters, or a majority of those who vote?

I've tried to find the answer on the TA website but, either I'm an idiot and keep missing it, or it's not there.

 

[v1valarob]

WRT the requirements for ratification...does it require the majority of the entire group (.5*(9L+9E+XJ)), or is it a majority of each individual pilot group (.5*(9L)+.5*(9E)+.5*(XJ))? And is it a majority of eligible voters, or a majority of those who vote?

I've tried to find the answer on the TA website but, either I'm an idiot and keep missing it, or it's not there.

I know its as a whole. IE if all of Colgan votes it down, but Pinnacle and Mesaba vote it in, then its good to go. Not too sure on the eligible vs actual votes.

 

[jynxyjoe]

I would be pretty embarrassed if this TA was voted down, but whatever. I would hope folks can do math, even if it is pilot math.

 

[CAPIP1998]

WRT the requirements for ratification...does it require the majority of the entire group (.5*(9L+9E+XJ)), or is it a majority of each individual pilot group (.5*(9L)+.5*(9E)+.5*(XJ))? And is it a majority of eligible voters, or a majority of those who vote?

I've tried to find the answer on the TA website but, either I'm an idiot and keep missing it, or it's not there.

50% + 1 of the voting members of the combined pilot group.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

What's up with losing the premium portion of any trips you pick up during the month if you call in sick???

 

[v1valarob]

What's up with losing the premium portion of any trips you pick up during the month if you call in sick???

I have always felt that type of thing makes a pilot work while sick. Currently at 9L if you have say 86hrs of projected credit, and you call in sick on a 6hr credit day, you only get 3hrs 45 min for that day. So your projected credit drops to 83:45. So you lose by calling in.

However you can also play the system. If you have a mixed line that is over guarantee for the month, if you have a reserve day worth 2hrs, you can call in sick, and suddenly your credit goes up by 1:45.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

I have always felt that type of thing makes a pilot work while sick. Currently at 9L if you have say 86hrs of projected credit, and you call in sick on a 6hr credit day, you only get 3hrs 45 min for that day. So your projected credit drops to 83:45. So you lose by calling in.

However you can also play the system. If you have a mixed line that is over guarantee for the month, if you have a reserve day worth 2hrs, you can call in sick, and suddenly your credit goes up by 1:45.

Welllll unfortunately the powers that be who negotiated this contract agreed to:

if you pick up during a month, you credit 150% for the trip
if you call in sick during said month, you lose a pro-rated portion of the 50% premium + the sick bank time required to cover whatever you were out for...

 

[ctab5060X]

Welllll unfortunately the powers that be who negotiated this contract agreed to:

if you pick up during a month, you credit 150% for the trip
if you call in sick during said month, you lose a pro-rated portion of the 50% premium + the sick bank time required to cover whatever you were out for...

Unfortunately, we probably did this to ourselves. It wouldn't surprise me if people were picking up open time at 200% then calling in sick and getting paid 200% and not then not working.

Either that or management is trying to prevent that scenario. Open time picked up at 200%... paid out for sick at 200% and then 100% for another pilot to cover the trip.

Like the draconian sick policy... it is those that abused the system that have caused a negative reaction from management for the rest of us that play by the rules.

 

[higney85]

This clause is rather standard in many contracts. We did have many who would call in sick for a 3 day to alleviate 30/7 and pick up a 200% 3-day immediately after the sick call trip.

 

[kellwolf]

This clause is rather standard in many contracts. We did have many who would call in sick for a 3 day to alleviate 30/7 and pick up a 200% 3-day immediately after the sick call trip.

I can veryify this. I know SEVERAL senior CAs that would call in sick, then pick up a 200% trip. One guy was in the crew room bragging about how the trip he called in sick for ended at like 12:45 but his 200% trip open time trip started at 1:50.

For the record, it even worked this way as a lowly ride operator at Disney. Pick up overtime, great. Call in sick, you lost the 1.5x pay for the overtime you picked up. It's less about forcing people to work sick than it is reducing the people that play the system. IMO, requiring a doctor's note is gonna force more people to fly sick than this will. I normally don't take time out of my day to go to the doctor for a sinus infection. I do now, but I'm more of an "Eff those guys" type person than I was years ago. Thanks Pinnacle management for jading me.

 

[WalterSobchak]

This clause is rather standard in many contracts. We did have many who would call in sick for a 3 day to alleviate 30/7 and pick up a 200% 3-day immediately after the sick call trip.

Already in the Mesaba contract. Yes the big bad company needs a little protection too.

 

[L-16B]

I can veryify this. I know SEVERAL senior CAs that would call in sick, then pick up a 200% trip. One guy was in the crew room bragging about how the trip he called in sick for ended at like 12:45 but his 200% trip open time trip started at 1:50.

For the record, it even worked this way as a lowly ride operator at Disney. Pick up overtime, great. Call in sick, you lost the 1.5x pay for the overtime you picked up. It's less about forcing people to work sick than it is reducing the people that play the system. IMO, requiring a doctor's note is gonna force more people to fly sick than this will. I normally don't take time out of my day to go to the doctor for a sinus infection. I do now, but I'm more of an "Eff those guys" type person than I was years ago. Thanks Pinnacle management for jading me.

I'm way more dissapointed with the dr.'s note part. It's ashame the contract doesn't say "no dr. note required for calling out less than x amount of days". I don't go see the dr. for a cold, sinus infection, flu, fever, or anything that will go away with time and over the counter medication. Dr's notes should be covered in the contract, or lack thereof.

 

[kellwolf]

I'm way more dissapointed with the dr.'s note part. It's ashame the contract doesn't say "no dr. note required for calling out less than x amount of days". I don't go see the dr. for a cold, sinus infection, flu, fever, or anything that will go away with time and over the counter medication. Dr's notes should be covered in the contract, or lack thereof.

I was hoping to see a sick policy in there, but alas, it was not to be. Company needs some way to strong arm us when they can't staff the place, I guess. The fatigue language is at least there, but it's kind of ambiguous. Do you get paid out of your sick time immediately, or do you still have to wait until you have your meeting for that? 'Cause that can take week/months and affect paying bills. We're probably gonna have to wait for a policy adjustment or a grievance to find out. Personally, I don't see why they can't just take it out of the sick bank first, then if the meeting finds you were naughty, THEN take the money out. Protects the legit guys while still leaving the deterrent for the abusers.

 

[BE19Pilot]

Unfortunately, we probably did this to ourselves. It wouldn't surprise me if people were picking up open time at 200% then calling in sick and getting paid 200% and not then not working.

Either that or management is trying to prevent that scenario. Open time picked up at 200%... paid out for sick at 200% and then 100% for another pilot to cover the trip.

Like the draconian sick policy... it is those that abused the system that have caused a negative reaction from management for the rest of us that play by the rules.

I must be either naive or stupid, but I would never consider doing that...Anyone that does isn't what I would call an "airline pilot" if you were to follow the code of ethics that we are bound by as members of ALPA. Questionable integrity outside the cockpit likely correlates to an equally slipshod demeanor and behavior in the cockpit. Just once I would love to hear someone in my crewroom brag about pulling a stunt like that mentioned above.

 

[kellwolf]

I must be either naive or stupid, but I would never consider doing that...Anyone that does isn't what I would call an "airline pilot" if you were to follow the code of ethics that we are bound by as members of ALPA. Questionable integrity outside the cockpit likely correlates to an equally slipshod demeanor and behavior in the cockpit. Just once I would love to hear someone in my crewroom brag about pulling a stunt like that mentioned above.

The ones that were bragging? You're pretty much spot on in your guess of how those guys are.