9L, 9E, XJ JCBA Actual Language

kellwolf said:
I was hoping to see a sick policy in there, but alas, it was not to be. Company needs some way to strong arm us when they can't staff the place, I guess. The fatigue language is at least there, but it's kind of ambiguous. Do you get paid out of your sick time immediately, or do you still have to wait until you have your meeting for that? 'Cause that can take week/months and affect paying bills. We're probably gonna have to wait for a policy adjustment or a grievance to find out. Personally, I don't see why they can't just take it out of the sick bank first, then if the meeting finds you were naughty, THEN take the money out. Protects the legit guys while still leaving the deterrent for the abusers.
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The sick note issue will be resolved since the company must show reasoning for the note. Staffing is no longer a reason of "suspicion". If you play the system, you may get tagged. If you are like 95% of the pilots who get sick, and rightfully call in, you won't be bothered.
 
higney85 said:
The sick note issue will be resolved since the company must show reasoning for the note. Staffing is no longer a reason of "suspicion". If you play the system, you may get tagged. If you are like 95% of the pilots who get sick, and rightfully call in, you won't be bothered.
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Exactly.

Before, we COULDN'T bring in a doctors note. 4 sick calls in a rolling year and you've got a verbal warning, and at 5 it's a written warning. Even if you were actually sick, and DID go to the doctor for EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE CALLS, the chiefs would say "Sorry, can't look at those doctors notes."

It was crap.
 
higney85 said:
The sick note issue will be resolved since the company must show reasoning for the note. Staffing is no longer a reason of "suspicion". If you play the system, you may get tagged. If you are like 95% of the pilots who get sick, and rightfully call in, you won't be bothered.
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That's all fine and good regarding staffing not being an excuse anymore, but whats to stop them from saying "Eh, we don't think you were really sick" just because the sick call took place on a Friday or some other circumstance that could be looked at as suspicious (even if it's a legit sick call.)

Holy run on sentence.
 
TristarJS30 said:
That's all fine and good regarding staffing not being an excuse anymore, but whats to stop them from saying "Eh, we don't think you were really sick" just because the sick call took place on a Friday or some other circumstance that could be looked at as suspicious (even if it's a legit sick call.)

Holy run on sentence.
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I concur doctor
 
TristarJS30 said:
That's all fine and good regarding staffing not being an excuse anymore, but whats to stop them from saying "Eh, we don't think you were really sick" just because the sick call took place on a Friday or some other circumstance that could be looked at as suspicious (even if it's a legit sick call.)

Holy run on sentence.
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So? Coaching session after your rolling fourth. Carpet dance at rolling 6 with a note in your file. It's not like the union throws you to the wolves or is powerless to help you. There are guidelines.
 
Every single meeting for sick calls that has reached "critical" level has resulted in a letter of warning. Said letter is grieved, and removed from the file. I am pretty sure mgmt is well aware of the fact that a phone call to the FAA office across the street would result in the same action, if not more.

On a side note, attendance is VERY important. Recent hires at Delta and others have requested attendance records. Pilots must approve of said request, but saying "no" will most likely end up with no job offer. If you are sick, don't come to work and get everyone else sick. Get better and return in full compliance with the stipulations mandated by your First Class Medical. If you are not sick, don't play games. You WILL get caught, the question is when/where and the consequences may be non-existent now, but may be worth millions in lifetime earnings by getting on at a major.

If you are approach this Profession as a Professional, you never have to worry about your actions.
 
higney85 said:
On a side note, attendance is VERY important. Recent hires at Delta and others have requested attendance records. Pilots must approve of said request, but saying "no" will most likely end up with no job offer. If you are sick, don't come to work and get everyone else sick. Get better and return in full compliance with the stipulations mandated by your First Class Medical. If you are not sick, don't play games. You WILL get caught, the question is when/where and the consequences may be non-existent now, but may be worth millions in lifetime earnings by getting on at a major.
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How do you think the majors look at use of an FMLA policy? I.E. - I've been missing about a week a month since my girls were born.. Does an FMLA claim throw up the same flags as a a regular sick call, I wonder..
 
The negative nancy's on the company board have really thrown a wrench out there... funny enough that these were the "yes" voters of the previous contract....

Am I starting to believe that this is a horrid deal? I don't know... but hopefully a road show will actually occur during a time I'm around.
 
TristarJS30 said:
That's all fine and good regarding staffing not being an excuse anymore, but whats to stop them from saying "Eh, we don't think you were really sick" just because the sick call took place on a Friday or some other circumstance that could be looked at as suspicious (even if it's a legit sick call.)

Holy run on sentence.
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This contract stops them from doing that. They must be able to demonstrate a reasonable suspicion on a person-by-person basis. Just because they feel like it, or it's Superbowl Sunday, or it's a Friday doesn't work.

Again, if you have a question on what the contract covers and doesn't cover, please ASK. There is "more than meets the eye" with some of these things.
 
cencal83406 said:
Ignoring the pay... is this contract really better than current book (and interpreted current book) at Pinnacle?
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I would think Scope and Scheduling would answer that question alone.

Is this some sort of bait or are you seriously conflicted? I'd make a list of things you like and don't like and decide for yourself.
 
jynxyjoe said:
I would think Scope and Scheduling would answer that question alone.

Is this some sort of bait or are you seriously conflicted? I'd make a list of things you like and don't like and decide for yourself.
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Some on the company board are simply trying to say "no" to change, ironic being that they are getting the most in terms of overall gains.
 
higney85 said:
Some on the company board are simply trying to say "no" to change, ironic being that they are getting the most in terms of overall gains.
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Well there's always gonna be some no votes right? I mean the math is all there, the contract language is soild. I think it was Kellwolf saying he was about to cry tears of joy reading the reserve section.

I knew I wasn't going to get a lot out of the contract, but I had high hopes for the scope and that's all there. Maybe I'm just easy to please.
 
cencal83406 said:
Does the current Mesaba contract have unlimited COLA?
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It did, which made it the only contract in the industry to have that provision. They were only able to get it because it was part of an overall concession package in bankruptcy. The company got the pay cuts that they wanted, and in return, the pilots go snapbacks and automatic COLA even past the amendable date. There was never any way that it was going to stay in the next contract, though. Management would be insane to ever agree to that on an ongoing basis. It completely kills any leverage they have in section 6.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
It did, which made it the only contract in the industry to have that provision. They were only able to get it because it was part of an overall concession package in bankruptcy. The company got the pay cuts that they wanted, and in return, the pilots go snapbacks and automatic COLA even past the amendable date. There was never any way that it was going to stay in the next contract, though. Management would be insane to ever agree to that on an ongoing basis. It completely kills any leverage they have in section 6.
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It's how you prevent 6 years of negotiating. Thats why people like myself find it annoying when junior colgan FO's whine about how little their raise is with this contract(that was negotiated in 3 months). I get no raise, the ability to refuse 3 jr man/ext events, and only scope against the whipsaw and I'm still happy.
 
WalterSobchak said:
It's how you prevent 6 years of negotiating.
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Maybe. Or it could create an unintended consequence of doing the exact opposite. There are conflicting theories on this. I'm still a bit undecided on which one I subscribe to, and it might even depend upon the company and the pilot group. The opposing theory is that automatic COLA raised take away most of the incentive that the pilots have to push towards a negotiated solution, as long as the work rules in their contract aren't absolutely horrible. Pilots tend to overlook work rule issues when they're guaranteed raises every single year into perpetuity. So, if the company worries that they might end up paying more than 3% per year in a new contract, and the pilots are relatively happy with their ongoing 3% raises, then contract negotiations could drag on pretty much forever. The other issues in the contract besides pay never get addressed. It's a tricky strategy question, and like I said, professional negotiators have many different views on it.
 
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