9L, 9E, XJ JCBA Actual Language

Two out of four isn't bad..

I just hope you guys don't chop your noses of despite your faces over what appears to be a marginal loss..

Something 9E guys will be losing is our vacation slide.. That's a pretty big bummer. I could turn 1 week of vacation into 2.5 if I worked it right.. That's gone.. I guess we are supposed to get the weekend before and the weekend after now, which isn't terrible..
 
CAPIP1998 said:
Seriously man, come to a roadshow and talk to me. What you are latching on to is the ONLY thing at Colgan that is better than the TA, and is the exception in the industry. It's always easy to focus on one thing you might be losing, but you need to FULLY understand the things you are gaining. Believe me, I wouldn't sign up for ANY contract that made reserve at Colgan worse.

pncljnc@alpa.org
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You misinterpreted my post. It was more to point out that there will be no more hybrid lines coming out that eat into your days off and to show Tram and others how that 2 hour reserve thing currently works.

For all you JrsyGuy haters out there, I really haven't even said anything bad about this deal in a long time. Stop reading into what isn't there, please.
 
Tram said:
I just hope you guys don't chop your noses of despite your faces over what appears to be a marginal loss..
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I don't think it will come to that. Every guy I have spoken with recognizes that there is a ton of good stuff in the TA. It just seems that the outstation Colgan guys were thrown under the bus with the carve outs. If we end up getting a LGA and BOS base staffed with more than 25 pilots, I think it will make up for most if not all of that.

But I am seriously worried about why the company was adamant about not allowing the min day credit for us. I fear they have something up their sleeve.

Anyway, I am hoping to attend a road show. I'm in Albany, so the days and places are not particularly convenient for me due to my schedule. But I'm going to try to get to EWR. I'll have to drive because the last flight out overlaps the road show so I would not get me back in time for my 5 am reserve the next day.
 
I'm definitely NOT a hater. I wouldn't give up so much of my own time to help fellow pilots if I hated them. I just want to make sure that not only are you given the opportunity to understand the TA before voting, but that you actually get all your questions answered thoroughly.

It's also not just about you. There are several guys posting incorrect assumptions or misinterpretations on the boards, and many more who read and believe them. Everybody needs to make sure they are not JUST getting information, but that they are getting the CORRECT information. Right now, the only true way to do that is to talk to the JNC or your reps. I only want to make sure that the correct information is out there so that the pilots can make an informed decision. Very few things are exactly as they seem.
 
matt152 said:
I don't think it will come to that. Every guy I have spoken with recognizes that there is a ton of good stuff in the TA. It just seems that the outstation Colgan guys were thrown under the bus with the carve outs. If we end up getting a LGA and BOS base staffed with more than 25 pilots, I think it will make up for most if not all of that.

But I am seriously worried about why the company was adamant about not allowing the min day credit for us. I fear they have something up their sleeve.

Anyway, I am hoping to attend a road show. I'm in Albany, so the days and places are not particularly convenient for me due to my schedule. But I'm going to try to get to EWR. I'll have to drive because the last flight out overlaps the road show so I would not get me back in time for my 5 am reserve the next day.
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Keep in mind you are welcome to come to ANY of the roadshows in ANY of the cities. We are also considering doing a phone conference or two at the end for anybody that couldn't make the roadshows, if necessary.
 
MATT152 I too am based in ALB and do not like the carve out either. As many have said time and time again the outstations are going to close. By this time next year if all the current stations are open I will write you a check for 100 dollars! The other thing to remember is our JNC got min day for the SAABS. the company did not want to entertain that idea at all. I ask you instead of looking at the downs for roughly 60 pilots look at the positives for almost 3000 pilots. These are just a few things to think about. You probably know who I am by my sn but if you have any questions give me a call. My number is in the crew room.
 
JrsyGuy said:
Im not really sure you get this min day stuff. It seems like you think the min day goes on top of everything. Even with the new contract if you were scheduled to work 18 days(12-13 off) on an actual line and, for arguments sake, you only flew(credited) 3 hours every day for a total of 54 hours you would only have your credit bumped up to 72 hours via min day(4 x 18) and would end up with just the 75 hour min guarentee. The only time the 4 hour min would be on top of guarentee seems to be if you were junior manned on an off day. Then even if you had 0 hours of credit accumulated to for every other day that month you would get at least 4 hours for that new day added above guarentee.
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In the past two months, I'd have credited 90 hours just off the 4 hour min day. I think this is now the THIRD time I've said this. There aren't many days we only fly about 3 hours here. Hell, I'm doing an out and back today, that's it, and I'm at 3:20. I'd still make more with the min day. The senior line holders won't see much with the min day since they're mostly over 4 hours a day right now anyway. They break guarantee with 14-15 days off. So, YES, again, it will help those not junior manned on an off day. I haven't talked to one reserve guy yet that this wouldn't help, and most of the line holders (who are on top of 75 anyway) would see more at the end of the day on at least a couple of days a month.
 
kellwolf said:
In the past two months, I'd have credited 90 hours just off the 4 hour min day. I think this is now the THIRD time I've said this. There aren't many days we only fly about 3 hours here. Hell, I'm doing an out and back today, that's it, and I'm at 3:20. I'd still make more with the min day. The senior line holders won't see much with the min day since they're mostly over 4 hours a day right now anyway. They break guarantee with 14-15 days off. So, YES, again, it will help those not junior manned on an off day. I haven't talked to one reserve guy yet that this wouldn't help, and most of the line holders (who are on top of 75 anyway) would see more at the end of the day on at least a couple of days a month.
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My January schedule (junior line holder) had several days that would have benefited from the min day. Would be crediting closer to 100 hours this month rather than the upper 80s. Really would like that provision today (one leg to end my trip).
 
kellwolf said:
In the past two months, I'd have credited 90 hours just off the 4 hour min day. I think this is now the THIRD time I've said this. There aren't many days we only fly about 3 hours here. Hell, I'm doing an out and back today, that's it, and I'm at 3:20. I'd still make more with the min day. The senior line holders won't see much with the min day since they're mostly over 4 hours a day right now anyway. They break guarantee with 14-15 days off. So, YES, again, it will help those not junior manned on an off day. I haven't talked to one reserve guy yet that this wouldn't help, and most of the line holders (who are on top of 75 anyway) would see more at the end of the day on at least a couple of days a month.
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I have a 2 day trip next month... 3 legs...
 
kellwolf said:
In the past two months, I'd have credited 90 hours just off the 4 hour min day. I think this is now the THIRD time I've said this. There aren't many days we only fly about 3 hours here. Hell, I'm doing an out and back today, that's it, and I'm at 3:20. I'd still make more with the min day. The senior line holders won't see much with the min day since they're mostly over 4 hours a day right now anyway. They break guarantee with 14-15 days off. So, YES, again, it will help those not junior manned on an off day. I haven't talked to one reserve guy yet that this wouldn't help, and most of the line holders (who are on top of 75 anyway) would see more at the end of the day on at least a couple of days a month.
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My post had nothing to do with saying a 4 hour min day wouldn't help. It was an effort to help explain the process of how it worked. There was some confusion on how min day was calculated so I was trying to show how it would work. If I thought it was a stupid or worthless provision I wouldn't be so upset that there was the carve out for some of the saab guys. Min day is huge... especially once the rest and duty regs kick in in the summer. That way they can't keep us on duty for 14 hours for just a 4 hour pay credit.
 
When out station bases go away, you will get the full 4 hour credit... Look past tomorrow and look further down the road...
 
matt152 said:
Of the four months I have spent on reserve, I exceeded guarantee twice with the help of the 2 hour credit. I'm close for January; it will depend on what I fly (or sit hot reserve) next week.
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I guess because your out of ALB it doesnt matter, but I would be interested to see you check out the days where you didnt credit at least 4 hours, make them 4 hours worth of credit, plus add the days that you did go over 4 hours, and subtract the reserve days that you werent used and see what you get.

Im hoping the roadshow guys do a phone conference. Whoever came up with the times for the IAD show doesnt know how IAD banks work. Id bet youll get less than 5 guys show up on day 1, and maybe 5 guys on day 2.
 
You know, deadhead, sit ALL day waiting for a plane than never got fixed, miss your flight home because scheduling cant make a damn decision, get junior manned into the next day off, told you are going to be released in pbg (WTF), told you will just fly one leg the next am but you look on crewtrac and see four. Oh and you went to the hotel at 8 pm and were given a pending 9am show on crewtrac, but a phone call at 11 pm telling you it's an 8 am departure. Pay credit for the day? Zero
 
You know how this all started? I bid for max time off on vacation. I was boxed in on the front end with two hours between my release time and my start of vacation. On the back end I had a single round trip on the day after vacation ended with the folowing four days off. Drop trip denied due to lack of reserve coverage. So I had to myself out in order to take a few hard earned days off with my wife. I'm on day six and will get exactly 24 hours off before I start a four day of ioe with a new captain. Awesome. Anyone colgan pilot that votes no to this contract clearly hasn't taken the square peg to the round hole enough
 
Haha gotta love some colgan. No they are trying to extend me beyond my original junior assignment. I want that JA refusal so bad right now. " um nope, I can't help ya, send me home" bam! That was easy!
 
"U. Minimum Days Off
1. Beginning April 1, 2011 and until such time as Pinnacle and Colgan are able to
implement the requirement of Section 12.E., a Pinnacle or Colgan Pilot who is
awarded one less than the minimum contractual days off in Domicile in a Bid Period
shall receive either a Compensatory Day or an additional vacation day, at the Pilot’s
option, for that Bid Period. In addition, the Pilot shall receive 8 hours of Pay Credit,
paid above guarantee."


How is the 8 hours of pay going to be added? Easiest case will be a reserve who is scheduled 10 days off and then doesn't fly above 75 hours. That pilot gets 83 hours of pay. But what about a line holder? A lot of the lines for February were scheduled to 10 days off, but are way above guarantee. Does the 8 hours just disappear in that case, or will a 95 hour line now be worth 103?



And for question number 2, do we get any pay for LCA?

Here's why I ask: Pilots returning to work from an absence will now be given a build up line instead of reserve. A pilot who could normally hold a line, can not be awarded reserve days, but can get Long Call Available days. Days off for the build up line has to be at least the maximum days given to a pilot junior to you. If a pilot is awarded a build up with flying worth 90 hours that gets 15 days off, but the most days off for junior pilots is 12, I can see scheduling throwing 3 days of LCA on the schedule. Will these 3 days be unpaid?
 
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