757 A/T failure

tcco94 said:
No one here brings up their workplace or employer to belittle people except you. You were the one after all jumping in this thread to Monday morning QB how you were a better pilot…
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I didn’t start this thread.


Thread missing Oh Delta XXVII


Better pilot? Clearly not - I’m not at Delta


Monday morning QB? If you’d like to call it that. Our job is to learn from other incidents and accidents so that we can avoid those similar situations in the future.
 
🦈💜 said:
Yeah. 117 has been "interpreted" to death. My alarm clock went off at 6am yesterday and at 10pm I was still in a plane waiting to fly leg four on an "automatic" extension. I got home after midnight. Reserve FDP is incredibly permissive and we basically never time out.
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You're still better off than under Part 121.

🦈💜 said:
The company has the option of "auditing" your FDP to remove any "non-movement time" from your block.
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Two things:
1) You have a joint responsibility with the carrier to verify you are in compliance, which means 1a) you need to be able to come up with the same answers and if you don't, you aren't going.
2) Much of the problem here is the "hee hee block out" then sit there for 41 minutes doing...something...that seems so pOOpular.

🦈💜 said:
Everything is funneled into the fatigue system, and much of the fatigue system—including whether crew can be disciplined for calling fatigue—is left to "employee/labor relations." You can feel the airlines' grubby little fingers in there pulling strings. There were provisions in the NRPM to prevent the company from doing some of these things, but they magically got stripped out, with the note "This is a labor relations issue."
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It is absolutely unlawful to discipline someone for availing themselves of the fatigue program and they full well know that having had their butts kicked by ALJs—even before the advent of Part 117. An employer "may not discharge or in any other manner retaliate against you for refusing to perform work assignments that you reasonably believe to cause you to violate any order, regulation, or standard of the FAA or any other provision of Federal law relating to aviation safety."

And, well, they are labor relations issues. The Federal Government mostly won't stick its nose into them since almost everywhere else has someone to speak for their labor. They will stick their nose in if it is one of those issues above, though, and it won't just be the FAA - it'll be the Department of Labor.
 
This is all a sidebar, but:

Autothrust Blue said:
2) Much of the problem here is the "hee hee block out" then sit there for 41 minutes doing...something...that seems so pOOpular.
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You mean like . . . waiting for flow? Getting notified of a ground stop just as we're starting the push? Dealing with maintenance issues? Waiting for our understaffed rampers who ran off to work another flight? Or . . . what exactly are you trying to say?

"Hee hee block out"? So that the crew can actually start getting paid for the duties and responsibilities they're actually performing?

I don't think anyone is just sandbagging, sitting around doing nothing just to increase block time.

If you're implying that we should wait to block out until there's absolutely, positively nothing that can prevent us from departing immediately? Bluntly: That's not a reasonable position, given our work rules. I will block out on time unless the departure time has been pushed back, as I'm expected to.
 
ChasenSFO said:
There isn't much cooler than the freedom of renting a plane, bringing who you want, and telling ATC "Ahoy, here I am, coming thru" just because you feel like doing it. I don't imagine flying 121 for a living would make that less fun, because it's entirely different. Just like working in a ramp tower for 6 years didn't make me stop coming to the airport on my days off to shoot rare planes, or having flight benefits for decades didn't stop me from going galavanting around Asia solely for planespotting. A Cessna or a 747 is still an airplane and flying is awesome. In Asia, the pilots I've met all have that spark still for the most part, even tho many got hired with 200-250TT and were barely exposed to GA and the freedoms we have in oil conquest country.

Somehow I manage all this and still have plenty of other passions outside of aviation that aren't nerdy, and there some here that I know feel the same. Still, it is always sad to see so many others let their passion be overshadowed by work. Something had to get them thru the grind, but where is that something now? I type this out as I'm in day 2 in Tokyo without leaving Narita, with a girl in my room who doesn't seem to mind. Off to the observation deck.

Never let go of your inner man child.
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I never thought I would but I turned into one of those guys for whom GA just seems like too much work and stress. I’ll freely admit my time in AK 135 seeing all the crazy ways • can go sideways probably influenced that. Maybe if I ever move back to the flatlands I could see something to hop around low and slow on a CAVU day. IFR in anything I could afford to own/rent? No thanks.
 
Roger Roger said:
I never thought I would but I turned into one of those guys for whom GA just seems like too much work and stress. I’ll freely admit my time in AK 135 seeing all the crazy ways • can go sideways probably influenced that. Maybe if I ever move back to the flatlands I could see something to hop around low and slow on a CAVU day. IFR in anything I could afford to own/rent? No thanks.
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What I do miss, though? Turned loose with a Learjet, one of my homies in the right seat, and 2 nurses amped up on hangar coffee ready to move a life, at 2 AM. 2 jet engines, APU, second pilot, hot wings…that’s the way to go places in Alaska. Having the responsibility to make it all happen, instead of just showing up to drive the bus, is something I miss. I just didn’t want to still be doing it at 60.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
You're still better off than under Part 121.


Two things:
1) You have a joint responsibility with the carrier to verify you are in compliance, which means 1a) you need to be able to come up with the same answers and if you don't, you aren't going.
2) Much of the problem here is the "hee hee block out" then sit there for 41 minutes doing...something...that seems so pOOpular.


It is absolutely unlawful to discipline someone for availing themselves of the fatigue program and they full well know that having had their butts kicked by ALJs—even before the advent of Part 117. An employer "may not discharge or in any other manner retaliate against you for refusing to perform work assignments that you reasonably believe to cause you to violate any order, regulation, or standard of the FAA or any other provision of Federal law relating to aviation safety."

And, well, they are labor relations issues. The Federal Government mostly won't stick its nose into them since almost everywhere else has someone to speak for their labor. They will stick their nose in if it is one of those issues above, though, and it won't just be the FAA - it'll be the Department of Labor.
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You’re wasting your time.
 
Roger Roger said:
What I do miss, though? Turned loose with a Learjet, one of my homies in the right seat, and 2 nurses amped up on hangar coffee ready to move a life, at 2 AM. 2 jet engines, APU, second pilot, hot wings…that’s the way to go places in Alaska. Having the responsibility to make it all happen, instead of just showing up to drive the bus, is something I miss. I just didn’t want to still be doing it at 60.
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Haha I have almost the exact opposite reaction. Too many years worrying about everything, I'm quite honestly pretty happy to just show up, and learn from those guys that want to share, but also chill out and not stress about anything at all. This isn't to say that I am dead weight in that right seat, I normally keep myself pretty busy with actual flying things, but I am in definitely no hurry to upgrade. Your situation is different though, you captained in something similar to what we do now. I did not.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I didn’t start this thread.


Thread missing Oh Delta XXVII


Better pilot? Clearly not - I’m not at Delta


Monday morning QB? If you’d like to call it that. Our job is to learn from other incidents and accidents so that we can avoid those similar situations in the future.
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Dude, let it go.

Delta Debbie didn’t want to dance with you. It’s ok. It doesn’t mean you’re a bad person, she just means she had sore feet and needed to sit for a while.

Maybe it had nothing to do with you. Can you accept that? Wang Chung tonight, you’ll feel better.
 
derg said:
Dude, let it go.

Delta Debbie didn’t want to dance with you. It’s ok. It doesn’t mean you’re a bad person, she just means she had sore feet and needed to sit for a while.

Maybe it had nothing to do with you. Can you accept that? Wang Chung tonight, you’ll feel better.
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Couldn’t care less. That was from 2016-19 for the NYC base. This topic has nothing to do with any of it. Of course, your Delta ilk likes to bring up Delta in the context of “you wish you were here” as their default insult.
 
///AMG said:
Haha I have almost the exact opposite reaction. Too many years worrying about everything, I'm quite honestly pretty happy to just show up, and learn from those guys that want to share, but also chill out and not stress about anything at all. This isn't to say that I am dead weight in that right seat, I normally keep myself pretty busy with actual flying things, but I am in definitely no hurry to upgrade. Your situation is different though, you captained in something similar to what we do now. I did not.
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Some of it is definitely getting maudlin coming up on the 1 year anniversary of clocking out for the last time, as well as the commuting grind wearing at me. But that was well and truly the only fun adult job I’ve had. Air taxi was fun when it was fun but mostly it was the kind of fun you have when you and your coworkers are surviving crappy work conditions and perpetually doing dumb • and not dying. This has its moments but the best thing is the paycheck and making the most of layovers. The flying is fun too, but I’m having a real hard time adjusting to working with a different random weirdo every 4 days and forgetting the A’s name the second we set the brake. Coming from flying with the same 2-3 FOs and same med crews all the time. I miss showing up right at 7 on the first day of day shift, preflighting the jet, moving in for the 2 weeks, making myself an espresso and breakfast burrito, going to the morning brief, then launching for BFI. No PA at TOC, just go hot mic with the RNs and start discussing where we’re eating. Also miss picking up a breakfast burrito from Breeze Inn at 7 AM after flying all night and not really remembering the drive there and back, before passing out in a sleep room for a few hours.
 
Roger Roger said:
Some of it is definitely getting maudlin coming up on the 1 year anniversary of clocking out for the last time, as well as the commuting grind wearing at me. But that was well and truly the only fun adult job I’ve had. Air taxi was fun when it was fun but mostly it was the kind of fun you have when you and your coworkers are surviving crappy work conditions and perpetually doing dumb • and not dying. This has its moments but the best thing is the paycheck and making the most of layovers. The flying is fun too, but I’m having a real hard time adjusting to working with a different random weirdo every 4 days and forgetting the A’s name the second we set the brake. Coming from flying with the same 2-3 FOs and same med crews all the time. I miss showing up right at 7 on the first day of day shift, preflighting the jet, moving in for the 2 weeks, making myself an espresso and breakfast burrito, going to the morning brief, then launching for BFI. No PA at TOC, just go hot mic with the RNs and start discussing where we’re eating. Also miss picking up a breakfast burrito from Breeze Inn at 7 AM after flying all night and not really remembering the drive there and back, before passing out in a sleep room for a few hours.
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Yeah I feel that. Where I came from too, we all knew each other very intimately. Like roommates for 9-11 months at a time intimate. I just have to accept I'll never have that here. That being said, I flew my last trip with a great dude I'd flown with a couple years back when we were both on reserve. When I saw his pic on the flight info app that you sign fit for duty on, I was like "oh hell yeah". We both remembered each others details, which was pretty cool, if not uncommon. Since we are both bidding about the same in our respective seats, turns out we have another trip to americas top hat next month. Looking forward to it. But to your original point, it is hard to find meaningfulness in airline flying when you are used to bringing a dying person to critical care, or maybe saving some young guys from getting killed on the battlefield. The trade off is the pay, schedule (eventually), and not having to care about it at all 20 days a month. I think you chose right, you just don't know it yet.
 
///AMG said:
Yeah I feel that. Where I came from too, we all knew each other very intimately. Like roommates for 9-11 months at a time intimate. I just have to accept I'll never have that here. That being said, I flew my last trip with a great dude I'd flown with a couple years back when we were both on reserve. When I saw his pic on the flight info app that you sign fit for duty on, I was like "oh hell yeah". We both remembered each others details, which was pretty cool, if not uncommon. Since we are both bidding about the same in our respective seats, turns out we have another trip to americas top hat next month. Looking forward to it. But to your original point, it is hard to find meaningfulness in airline flying when you are used to bringing a dying person to critical care, or maybe saving some young guys from getting killed on the battlefield. The trade off is the pay, schedule (eventually), and not having to care about it at all 20 days a month. I think you chose right, you just don't know it yet.
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The 121 job is boring as crap, as far as flying jobs go. But, that’s what it should be. It shouldn’t be exciting, in the way we know excitement. That kind of excitement gets pax worried, so to the extent it can be avoided, all the better.

The other pilots are fine to fly with, for the most part. Cool stuff is hearing the full, first hand stories, on things like how a simple thought of making approaches into JNU easier, became an idea, to an individual assignment along with a couple other pilots, to an in-house TERPS design, to an operational test and evaluation, to a certification, to Delta Air Lines trying to steal it for themselves, to the beginning of an individual company in order to design these and more cool avionics to sell to industry, to where things are now. That kind of history talk from the guy(s) who lived it from start to finish, is worth its weight in gold. Something one can’t get from anywhere or anyone else.
 
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