757 A/T failure

He was an FO for years on the bus before upgrading. But just never really took the time to think about the operational side of things and the admin side of things. Never practiced on how he would make a decision if he was in the left seat. I always practiced scenarios of what I would do if I was the CA, when I was in the right seat and something was going down. He didn't know who to talk to, didn't know when he needed a new release, or when to send for new performance data. He didn't know how to plot for an ETOPS flight, and when I say plot, literally loading the CP, EEP and EXP into Jepp FD. Just seemed like he spent years not paying attention because the CA would just take care of it and when he became a CA, he couldn't help when the FO had questions. Very bizarre scenario but really reminded me of just an overall lack of admin skills when it came to operational decision-making.

Back years ago when I was a captain, I would make the FOs do many things, like review the release, make decisions on fuel, weight and balance, routing, etc. I'd obviously double check all that stuff myself since I had to sign the release. But the first time to think about taking on extra fuel for an area of forecast convective weather is not when it's your third flight in the left seat. It's part of the captain's job to mentor the FOs to become leaders themselves someday.

Taking it a step further, I told a friend who recently went to the regionals that as an FO you have to be a chameleon to the captain's style of doing things. When you become a captain you also have to be a chameleon, but now it's to the FOs learning style and acceptable of constructive criticism. Since it's part of your job to prepare them to be in your seat someday in the future.
 
That’s how it goes here too. But calling in that “I’m fatigued” while flying an airplane is obviously going to get a much stranger response, and rightfully so.
I forgot, we finally have an app now where we don’t talk to anyone for sick or fatigue. Bet it doesn’t work enroute 🤣
 

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Sounds like the duty pilot was trying to tell him “you can’t declare fatigued right after you took off, we can’t write it up that way. So what I think you meant to say regarding the return, is X…”
To me, based on the duty pilot's tone, it sounded more like the guy had no idea how a pilot could become fatigued in the air. A vast majority of fatigue calls occur on the ground. As a result he was probably thinking about 20 steps down the road about how that could be a legal problem for them. The reality is that the crew was flying a delayed red-eye and had a take-off with a high workload event involved.
 
Back years ago when I was a captain, I would make the FOs do many things, like review the release, make decisions on fuel, weight and balance, routing, etc. I'd obviously double check all that stuff myself since I had to sign the release. But the first time to think about taking on extra fuel for an area of forecast convective weather is not when it's your third flight in the left seat. It's part of the captain's job to mentor the FOs to become leaders themselves someday.

Taking it a step further, I told a friend who recently went to the regionals that as an FO you have to be a chameleon to the captain's style of doing things. When you become a captain you also have to be a chameleon, but now it's to the FOs learning style and acceptable of constructive criticism. Since it's part of your job to prepare them to be in your seat someday in the future.

Great mentoring right there.
 
The Speedrun ramper And the guy who wrote the book are different guys.

Facts aren't important right now

Never have been

That's a fact

You’re at least the 3rd person to tell him that





This has already been acknowledged and addressed above.


Bottom line, going on Reddit to barf your catlike quick timeline is also reeking narcissism and ego.
 
BTW…the B757 (also true for the A300 and MD11) without auto throttles (not talking about an inop thrust management computer where you have to reference manuals for thrust settings since they’re not be displayed) should be a non event even for the average crew regardless of time of day.
But can you do an autoland? Not CATII or CAT III. A CAT 1 where the mins (Rwy 19 into RFD back then, 1800 RVR) require an autoland or HGS. That slide in recurrent back in 2007-08, I proudly owned. I refused to do a manual thrust autoland, pretty much using the QRH for CAT 2/3. Went to DSM for more gas. Management Pilot in Contingency tells me I'm wrong. I say "where does it say I can do it". He says "Where does it say you can't". His feeling was if it doesn't say you can't do something in the book, then you CAN do it. Doesn't matter if I wasn't trained on it. Later I found out the 75/76 was certified for manual thrust autolands by Boeing (not dependent on weather, per se, but CAT2/3 is limiting). The slide in AQP solved the "I'm not trained for it" question.
 
To me, based on the duty pilot's tone, it sounded more like the guy had no idea how a pilot could become fatigued in the air. A vast majority of fatigue calls occur on the ground. As a result he was probably thinking about 20 steps down the road about how that could be a legal problem for them. The reality is that the crew was flying a delayed red-eye and had a take-off with a high workload event involved.
The counter argument is you shouldn't show for duty in a state where you can't handle a non-normal after takeoff. I was at UPS for 31 years and never heard of someone calling FAT in flight. The FAT call should be done prior to showing. In this DL situation, take the plane back if you want, say you don't think it's safe and divert. But don't call it FAT.
 
I’ll admit I didn’t listen to the whole video, don’t know the experience level of the Capt or crew, nor do I know about any additional mechanical issues or problems the crew may have been dealing with prior to the flight or soon after. But, it appears they were simply dealing with an autothrottle inop situation? Does that about cover it?

I flew 5 different fleet types during my 34 yrs at UPS. 4 had auto throttles (B727 didn’t). I flew the 4 equipped with auto throttles..without them either by MEL’ed or they simply stopped working at some point. Yea, you have to pay attention and do some of that basic pilot stuff, the naps are shorter and not as restful but it’s more of an annoyance than a full blown emergency. Backside of the clock flying was considered normal ops on the freight side. Yea, not ideal obviously, didn’t have the rules protection in place that crews have nowadays, but it was the nature of the beast. After running checklists and such….about the only call would’ve been to dispatch with a conversation about whether or not we can legally land at the destination without auto throttles due to autoland capabilities etc…not, I’m too tired to manipulate the throttles.

A fatigue call is something you do before the flight and preferably before reporting for duty…no shame in that. Once you report for duty for your normally schedule flight and it departs, assuming on time, you can’t cry foul simply because you lost your auto throttles and now have to do pilot stuff on a 5 hr flight. I wouldn’t want to be at the end of that table doing a rug dance trying to defend that decision. There’s a difference between an inflight system emergency and a simple annoyance.

BTW…the B757 (also true for the A300 and MD11) without auto throttles (not talking about an inop thrust management computer where you have to reference manuals for thrust settings since they’re not be displayed) should be a non event even for the average crew regardless of time of day. This is a failure of the training center and/or lack of knowledge/experience specifically with the Capt of the flight. One good thing this crew did was get multiple people involved to “problem solve”. At UPS we could talk to Mx after block out but always had to contact Dispatch first and they would connect us to Mx while they listened to the problem. The dispatcher is just as responsible for the safety of flight so I never had an issue with that. Many times I used the SatCom over VHF simply because it was a clearer connection and more private if warranted.

Also, in closing, I’ve never been a fan of these zero to hero posts and social media stories of folks getting to the left seat in as few years as possible. While it gets the requisite “likes and follows” and constant stream of selfies to show mom, experience does account for some things in life and aviation is one of those. It’s what you fall back on when you run out of luck and options at the same time. I feel all these uber quick upgrades is resulting in a severe lack of “situational experience” when things go bump in the night…

Didn’t FedEx 727s, some of the very late ones they had, have A/T’s? And Cat II autoland? I seem to remember they had a different engine #2 than the #1 and #3 engines.
 
I’ll admit I didn’t listen to the whole video, don’t know the experience level of the Capt or crew, nor do I know about any additional mechanical issues or problems the crew may have been dealing with prior to the flight or soon after. But, it appears they were simply dealing with an autothrottle inop situation? Does that about cover it?

I flew 5 different fleet types during my 34 yrs at UPS. 4 had auto throttles (B727 didn’t). I flew the 4 equipped with auto throttles..without them either by MEL’ed or they simply stopped working at some point. Yea, you have to pay attention and do some of that basic pilot stuff, the naps are shorter and not as restful but it’s more of an annoyance than a full blown emergency. Backside of the clock flying was considered normal ops on the freight side. Yea, not ideal obviously, didn’t have the rules protection in place that crews have nowadays, but it was the nature of the beast. After running checklists and such….about the only call would’ve been to dispatch with a conversation about whether or not we can legally land at the destination without auto throttles due to autoland capabilities etc…not, I’m too tired to manipulate the throttles.

A fatigue call is something you do before the flight and preferably before reporting for duty…no shame in that. Once you report for duty for your normally schedule flight and it departs, assuming on time, you can’t cry foul simply because you lost your auto throttles and now have to do pilot stuff on a 5 hr flight. I wouldn’t want to be at the end of that table doing a rug dance trying to defend that decision. There’s a difference between an inflight system emergency and a simple annoyance.

BTW…the B757 (also true for the A300 and MD11) without auto throttles (not talking about an inop thrust management computer where you have to reference manuals for thrust settings since they’re not be displayed) should be a non event even for the average crew regardless of time of day. This is a failure of the training center and/or lack of knowledge/experience specifically with the Capt of the flight. One good thing this crew did was get multiple people involved to “problem solve”. At UPS we could talk to Mx after block out but always had to contact Dispatch first and they would connect us to Mx while they listened to the problem. The dispatcher is just as responsible for the safety of flight so I never had an issue with that. Many times I used the SatCom over VHF simply because it was a clearer connection and more private if warranted.

Also, in closing, I’ve never been a fan of these zero to hero posts and social media stories of folks getting to the left seat in as few years as possible. While it gets the requisite “likes and follows” and constant stream of selfies to show mom, experience does account for some things in life and aviation is one of those. It’s what you fall back on when you run out of luck and options at the same time. I feel all these uber quick upgrades is resulting in a severe lack of “situational experience” when things go bump in the night…


What’s especially messed up is when you consider that once hired, initial training to OE compete is about 3 months. So when a guy leaves Breeze after 6 months or Spirit after 4 months, there’s very little line flight time. These people are basically collecting type ratings into the biggest, baddest thing so they can show off on social media. Or write a book. Click, like, and subscribe. Or posing with their Delta Captain hat while in a hammock. *BARF*


I just got my shop’s new uniform pilot hat. I admired it for all of 10 seconds, and then placed it on the top shelf of my master walkin closet, never to be seen again… WHERE IT BELONGS.
 
Actually, now that I’ve read this Reddit guy post, did he type all that? Because if he typed that, it too reeks of narcissism look-at-me and what I did type. You’re not going to impress me with any of that, nor do I care what he did in his 5.5 yrs to help someone else - unless that involved walking a resume in and getting someone an interview.
This is funny coming from the guy who always reminds us of how great of a pilot he is, has never made a mistake while flying, and is the first one to criticize ANY other pilot that does.
 
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