709 Ride due to DPE Edward L. Lane investigation??

JOEFRIDAY2 said:
There is no way to fight it. However just taking the "ride" with the FAA may not be suitable for some pilots.

......

However if you are current, have at least 100 hours in the past 6 months, then I do agree that you can do the 709 ride without much of a problem.
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If you are not current, you simply need to tell that to the FSDO when you respond to the letter. Once you contact them, you can likely get 6 months to get up to speed.
 
USMCmech said:
If you are not current, you simply need to tell that to the FSDO when you respond to the letter. Once you contact them, you can likely get 6 months to get up to speed.
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They are not allowing 6 months on this. They are requiring that the pilots deposit their certificate with the FSDO if it is going to take over 30 days. This one has a whole set of different rules and procedures.

Joe
 
USMCmech said:
That's BS.

In that case, you need a lawyer if you are not current.
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Unfortunately, the FAA has their feet set in on this and a lawyer is not going to be able to change it. Again, I don't want to get into a whole drawn out discussion about how and what to do, about this, on a public board that anyone has access to including the FAA. Remember the FAA has a job to do and they will get it done. This has been pushed down from above and it is not going away.

I've helped several pilots come up with an action plan over the past few days and there are some ways to solve this that are more favorable than other ways. It's going to depend on each pilots individual circumstances. You must understand that the FAA requirements must be complied with or there will be severe consequences.

I know it sucks but there is a potential safety issue that the FAA is investigating. If they find something wrong and it saves lives, then I fully support their efforts.

My hope is that they will investigate, find everything was done properly and close the investigation.

The main thing is to not ignore this. Under the mandate, the FAA will begin revoking certificates 30 days after the receipt of the letter if something is not done. If you have one of these letters, you will want to make sure you have an action plan completed prior to the expiration of the 30 days. I have been recommending that pilots complete their action plan prior to the 20 day mark.

I have not found a link between this investigation and Shebles other than the DPE was working there at least some of the time period that the investigation is covering. Based on talks with some of the pilots, the DPE was also conducting checkrides for pilots that did not attend Shebles. He is currently working back at Shebles.

Joe
 
By fight it, I mean its obvious just taking the ride isn't an option, and its BS to lose your certificate in such a fashion, so he should lawyer up and "fight it" bureaucratically. Not roll over and hand in his certificate because he's between a rock and a hard place.
 
I am amazed the FAA is moving this fast. Normally anything they do takes months. Fight is with a lawyer. If the lawyer cannot get you out if, he may be able to buy you more time. Especially, since it puts a financial hardship on could unjustly punish you due to your economic status.

If you have taken any checkrides since this last one that may also you get out of the 709 ride. I can't remember the exact case, but there was one some time back where they FAA went after pilot certs after busting one of their own. They let anyone that had taken another checkride off the hook since they were evaluated by someone else since the questionable ride.
 
if this had happened to me, i think i would sue the DPE giving bogus rides... at least for enough to get current and pay for tge ride...
 
Bandit_Driver said:
If you have taken any checkrides since this last one that may also you get out of the 709 ride. I can't remember the exact case, .
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Don't have to remember the exact case. The FAA's formal announcement about this one says that.
==============================
If it is subsequently determined that an airman has been tested for an additional pilot certificate or rating with satisfactory results after the last test administered by DPE Lane, the reexamination letter will be rescinded.
==============================

Perhaps some missed it - the full text of the FAA's notice is here: http://fsims.faa.gov/PICDetail.aspx?docId=F50406D22D1C2B6E86257A44004E86B2
 
ChasenSFO said:
By fight it, I mean its obvious just taking the ride isn't an option, and its BS to lose your certificate in such a fashion, so he should lawyer up and "fight it" bureaucratically. Not roll over and hand in his certificate because he's between a rock and a hard place.
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The only avenue for "fighting" a 44709 ride is an appeal to the National Transportation Safety Board.

It would probably be less expensive to submit to re-examination.

(Edit: During your appeal, the order of the Administrator is stayed unless the Administrator advises the NTSB that an emergency exists, and the public safety requires the emergency suspension or revocation of your certificates. IMO, you'd be playing with fire - but I'm not a lawyer and not acquainted with the particular details of each situation.)
 
I'd argue if you know you're going to fail the ride and then have to jump through hoop after hoop to get the certificate back after a state of non-flying for several years, it'd be cheaper and less hassle to take the initiative and do what you can to hold onto your cert.
 
If you got such a letter, could you take, for example, a quick, no-pressure, weekend ASES course and checkride to avoid the 709?
 
Autothrust Blue said:
(Edit: During your appeal, the order of the Administrator is stayed unless the Administrator advises the NTSB that an emergency exists, and the public safety requires the emergency suspension or revocation of your certificates. IMO, you'd be playing with fire - but I'm not a lawyer and not acquainted with the particular details of each situation.)
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Just as a point of information regarding your edit, the typical FAA response to a refusal to take a 709 is an emergency suspension - the type that is not stayed by an appeal to the NTSB.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
I'm going to agree with those who say that you should speak with an aviation lawyer. It's not that the attorney is going to scare anyone; it's more that he or she is going to walk you through what you can and cannot do. Better yet is to get someone in that FSDO district who is likely to know what is going on, who to speak to and how much wiggle room you have. I can see two ways for the FDSO to be looking at this: pilot as victim of a bad examiner or pilot as accomplice of a bad examiner. That's where an attorney with local knowledge is going to be worth his weight in gold.

If your'e an AOPA member with the Legal Services Plan, great. If not, if you;re an AOPA member, you still have access to the list - http://www.aopa.org/members/databases/lsp/lspplan.cfm. Personal recommendations are best, but in its absence calling 2-3 people on that list is a good place to start. (I took a quick look at the list; I don't know any of them personally so I can't make a recommendation).

Generally, there's not much you can do about avoiding a 709 ride without losing your certificates. Given the right circumstances a deferral can usually be worked out. And you also don't want to take a 709 ride if you're not sharp, so you are going to want to get some instruction to bring you up to snuff.
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I can not reiterate what Mark wrote enough. While not necessarily related to this case some advise from a non lawyer:
1. If you do not have AOPA legal insurance get it.
2. Never, ever put anything in writing that is not cleared by a lawyer that may deal with an FAA violation unless you absolutely trust the person with your certificate. Not to your boss, certainly not on a website. It is very easy to forward an email or a link to a FSDO.
3. Do not go to a FSDO or talk with a safety inspector before first talking with a lawyer. I would highly recommend against going to a FSDO to discuss a possible violation without a lawyer present. Even if AOPA does not cover it do it.
I know we sometimes get nit picky on this website about the FARs and different legal interpretations but pay attention to them. "I did not know" does not work as a legal defense- so try to follow the regulations as best as you can.
 
WOW!
The FFA, or rather FAA (sorry, I get them confused sometimes) really has a stiff one over this guy. I read the letter MidlifeFlyer posted; the FAA only gave 15 days to comply with the letter, not 30! If you were unable to complete the reexam within the 15 days, you could extend up to 30 only AFTER you surrender your certificate pending the reexam. Also, only higher levels of the specific certificate evaluated by Lane exempt you from this reexam, not just another checkride.

AND, if you got a letter, you get the reexam. The letter states that if a certificate holder received a higher-level evaluation that meets the intent of the investigation, a letter was NOT sent. [I'm certain some may have been sent in error but the FAA seems to be all over this one]. AND they already stated in the letter that this is a safety of flight notification; presumably a preemptive strike against anyone planning an NTSB appeal.

I'm more curious now as to what started this whole mess. This is unprecedented...at least I've never seen anything like it...
 
Yeah. It sounds like a vendetta against this examiner. He must have ticked off the local FSDO pretty good. I don't know the examiner but knowing what I do about the FAA and how things work, I wouldn't automatically make the examiner the bad guy.
 
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