250 below 10k…

[SteveC]

Made better by the fact that the ATC doesn’t have to advise you that you are leaving B when your destination is not the primary bravo airport. Say you’re going into PDK,SRQ, TEB,MMU,FRG etc , they can and will descend you under the floor and not say a peep.

That ATL north corridor rumor has it is a hot zone for 200 below B busts.

Yep. Going into KPWK from west Michigan you'll usually be under the Bravo 25 miles out...

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

Can we settle on maybe letting ATC waive those speeds?

Conversely I’m sure there’s times when we could help ATC if we could go faster.

Kind of silly when nobody is in front of me to the airport, but the plane behind us is getting slower for spacing (when we would happily just go 20kts faster)

 

[NovemberEcho]

There are a few countries where 250 below 10 isn’t a thing,

I know cause half the time those countries airlines coughlufthansacough check in with me level at 7,000 and 340kts cause that’s what they were last assigned

they can and will descend you under the floor and not say a peep.

I routinely assign 210 or greater at 2000’ going into some of those airports as well.

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

Yep. Going into KPWK from west Michigan you'll usually be under the Bravo 25 miles out...

View attachment 72717

I know cause half the time those countries airlines coughlufthansacough check in with me level at 7,000 and 340kts cause that’s what they were last assigned

I routinely assign 210 or greater at 2000’ going into some of those airports as well.

. At least the proudly own it- and are precisely doing 340kts. In reality that’s probably even their calibrated speed because IAS is so imperfect.

 

[Richman]

I think they tried a test out of IAH on this a bunch of years ago.

I think the conclusion was it didn’t make any meaningful improvements.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Don't get me started on delaying the final flap retraction to adhere to this rule.........(yes there is another way that is less painful, I know)

I don’t get the pro-crowd on that one. Manual clearly states and allows 200 kts or clean maneuver speed. I do the latter. These are FAA-approved manuals.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

The more you know:

1960 New York mid-air collision - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

TWA Flight 553 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Enacted in 1961 in the wake of the 1960 New York mid-air collision, FAR Part 91.85 mandated speed restrictions below 10,000 feet (3,000 m) within 30 nautical miles of a destination airport. After the accident involving Flight 553, all areas below 10,000 feet (3,000 m) were prohibited from exceeding 250 knots (290 mph; 460 km/h) IAS. The accident also influenced the Federal Aviation Administration's decision to create terminal control areas or TCAs (now called Class B airspace) around the busiest airports in the country. The airspace around Dayton did not become a TCA, undergoing only minor changes until it was reclassified as Class C airspace in the late 1980s.

​

 

[MikeD]

Raise your hand if you flew as a pilot under the old airspace classification before the Class system was adopted……

 

[DE727UPS]

You mean TCA's and TRSA's. I still call it a TCA sometimes. Get weird looks.

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

The more you know:

1960 New York mid-air collision - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

TWA Flight 553 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Enacted in 1961 in the wake of the 1960 New York mid-air collision, FAR Part 91.85 mandated speed restrictions below 10,000 feet (3,000 m) within 30 nautical miles of a destination airport. After the accident involving Flight 553, all areas below 10,000 feet (3,000 m) were prohibited from exceeding 250 knots (290 mph; 460 km/h) IAS. The accident also influenced the Federal Aviation Administration's decision to create terminal control areas or TCAs (now called Class B airspace) around the busiest airports in the country. The airspace around Dayton did not become a TCA, undergoing only minor changes until it was reclassified as Class C airspace in the late 1980s.

​

Was it losing A VOR and misdentifying the holding fix or failure to slow to 210kts holding speed that got them?

Mostly in jest- but that was 63 years ago, things have certainly changed

 

[MikeD]

You mean TCA's and TRSA's. I still call it a TCA sometimes. Get weird looks.

Yes. the older days When I started out, PHX was an ARSA.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Yes. the older days When I started out, PHX was an ARSA.

I learned to fly near YNG which was (still?) a TRSA. Also helps it is an AF reserve base.

 

[CFI A&P]

12nm or more offshore is where it’s at.

 

[zmiller4]

I'd rather take a bird (or drone) to the windshiel at 250 knots than 300.

Absolutely this. I hit a Canada goose at 250kts at 9k’ on a hot day (maybe 300 TAS?). It hit right below my windshield and the damage it did was really impressive. Add on 50 or 100kts and I’m not sure I’d have a head.

 

[Beep]

Yep. Going into KPWK from west Michigan you'll usually be under the Bravo 25 miles out...

View attachment 72717

Yeah, but IMPORTANT people wouldn’t be doing that anyhow.

 

[Richman]

Raise your hand if you flew as a pilot under the old airspace classification before the Class system was adopted……

Real aviators call them TCAs, use Fahrenheit and get their weather from the hourly sequence.

 

[ahw01]

Real aviators call them TCAs, use Fahrenheit and get their weather from the hourly sequence.

And use LORAN

 

[Richman]

And use LORAN

Pffft. Who needs it. My Cezzner's ARC radios had automatic radial centering.

 

[milleR]

Heh, as late as 2008 at Cape Air the GOOD planes had a KNS80 and NDB approaches were still part of initial training lol

 

[ASpilot2be]

Heh, as late as 2008 at Cape Air the GOOD planes had a KNS80 and NDB approaches were still part of initial training lol

I had to do an NDB approach on my SAAB 340 type in 2014.