200 knots below Class B and NY airspace

TallWeeds said:
Descended below the B over Lake Michigan while headed to MDW. Controller very angrily says, "Compass 123, say airspeed!"

My forward thinking FO says, "You descended us below the bravo, 200 kts."

He responds back, "Ok, don't slow down anymore until I tell you."

I turned and asked the Southwest JSer how fast they flew below the B while headed to MDW.

"About 275."
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ATC: "I need about two fiddy."
Me: "Dammit, monster, git off my lawn."
My Co-Pilot: "Lord he was angry."
Me: "Damn right I was angry."
Co-Pilot: "Not you, the monster. He was about to kick your ass."
 
T/O w/FSII said:
No obligation when IFR and it absolutely needs to change. When I’m IFR single pilot the last thing I’ll be doing is attempting to find a VFR chart on my iPad. This won’t be able to come from pilots because the FAA will think we just wanna go fast. The push will have to come from ATC.
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The airspaces are noted on the IFR and VFR maps in our software as long as you zoom to a certain range and have them toggled on.
 
T/O w/FSII said:
No obligation when IFR and it absolutely needs to change. When I’m IFR single pilot the last thing I’ll be doing is attempting to find a VFR chart on my iPad. This won’t be able to come from pilots because the FAA will think we just wanna go fast. The push will have to come from ATC.
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It's in your jepps. I want to say 10-4. Something less than the 9s.
 
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Here’s why we sometimes need you fast below the B. If 200+ is needed to hit the gap, it’s needed to hit the gap. There’s no where else to go

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z987k said:
It's in your jepps. I want to say 10-4. Something less than the 9s.
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Yea I have jeop and ForeFlight but not everyone IFR even has a VFR subscription, and not all planes have a MFD that shows airspace.

It’s absolutely • to expect everyone IFR to know when they are under the B with the charts aren’t required and it’s absolutely • that ATC expects us to go fast and break a reg at the same time.
 
I was flying back home one day VFR to DMW and after parking the line guy tells me somebody from the FAA wants me to call him. So I ring the number he left, the gentleman answers and says "hey, I just wanted to make sure you were aware of the VFR speed restriction within 60 nm of DCA?"

"Yes sir"

"Okay, great, I don't know what the winds were today and that's a pretty quick plane so just wanted to check. Have a good day"

About 6 months later I see a Hawker crew that had just arrived VFR is standing on the ramp huddled around a cell phone talking to the same guy.

Maybe it's a DC SFRA thing, but somebody somewhere is watching.
 
  • Wow
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As a frequent guest of the LVZ4 and JAIKE3 into TEB, I always have some form of situational awareness going to be cognizant of in and under the bravo. The controller may not be firm on 200/250 but the computers are, including the FOQA recorder on the plane.

Another way to get yourself caught is accelerating to 250 before WENTZ on the Ruudy6. Still under the bravo and you'll run up on the preceding aircraft.
 
T/O w/FSII said:
Just a FAA employee advocating everyone just forget about this FAR because “New York”
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I definitely understand their perspective. Not different from most flying jobs, I'm sure they're given only a percentage of the tools they need to do their job and are making up for the rest of it through sheer effort.

That said, I'm not a big fan of bending the rules for the sake of expediency. I hate the rapid fire taxi clearances in ORD and the "never stop" rule. If I need clarification to keep me from hitting something or causing bigger issues, I'm gonna stop and wait. I know it's not popular and I'll avoid it at all costs, but that's the way it's supposed to be done.

As hard as it is, if you want to do things differently you gotta change the system.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
I'm sure they're given only a percentage of the tools they need to do their job and are making up for the rest of it through sheer effort.
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When you fly into TEB today over STW or HUO, you’re shipped to 127.6 and that person works you all the way in (along with MMU CDW and all the other nontowered airports in northern NJ). In reality, you’re not supposed to be talking to 127.6 that far out. There’s another position that’s supposed to get those planes and put them in a line for 127.6 because working it combined when busy is technically considered too much. Except we don’t have the staffing to open that position and haven’t in years. I’ve been here 5 years and it has not been split once since I’ve been here.
 
NovemberEcho said:
When you fly into TEB today over STW or HUO, you’re shipped to 127.6 and that person works you all the way in (along with MMU CDW and all the other nontowered airports in northern NJ). In reality, you’re not supposed to be talking to 127.6 that far out. There’s another position that’s supposed to get those planes and put them in a line for 127.6 because working it combined when busy is technically considered too much. Except we don’t have the staffing to open that position and haven’t in years. I’ve been here 5 years and it has not been split once since I’ve been here.
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Exactly what I meant. You guys work too hard. Let the planes slow, let the delays build. That’s likely the only way things will change.
 
It’s funny to me what rules pilots are willing to break and what rules they will not break when they’re all in the same book. I’ve never met a pilot that followed 121.542. I’ve met one pilot, and only one, who followed 121.333. Every single pilot I’ve met follows (or attempts to follow) 91.117. I know it’s the normalization of deviance, but it’s just interesting how normal most of it has become.
 
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