1500 hr rule going away??

Clint H said:
It's Aresti notation:
https://www.iac.org/legacy/aerobatic-figures
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And the point was that if you want to get better at aircraft handling, you should probably have some aerobatic training. I loved mine, and I use it every time I go to work.

(No, I'm not out turning the passengers upside down, but it heightens your feel and your control abilities.)
 
wbauman1217 said:
Actually putting low time pilots in the right seat worked out quite well for the first 75 or so years of commercial aviation, and there's really no data to support the idea that simply multiplying minimums to sit right seat by 5 will have any impact on safety. That being said, the rule will raise wages for those of us who put in the time (hopefully). So from an economic standpoint I can get behind it.
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I ask because this is a little bit of a blanket statement/assertion and isn't completely accurate depending on what your definition of "working out quite well" is.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
And the point was that if you want to get better at aircraft handling, you should probably have some aerobatic training. I loved mine, and I use it every time I go to work.

(No, I'm not out turning the passengers upside down, but it heightens your feel and your control abilities.)
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Feel? My airplane has no feel.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
And the point was that if you want to get better at aircraft handling, you should probably have some aerobatic training. I loved mine, and I use it every time I go to work.

(No, I'm not out turning the passengers upside down, but it heightens your feel and your control abilities.)
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Problem also is different airline cultures.

Delta apparently emphasizes hand flying raw data to keep the skills up.

Pinnacle used to.

Mesaba procedure basically calls for always having the flight director on, and in fact my buddies shudder in horror that we hand fly sans flight director over at cowboy air.

Further, the FAA is giving in to the worldwide erosion of hand flying by forcing RNAVs upon us. We now no longer have "4 NM either side of center", rather the tolerance is less than a 1/2 dot before the violation might spit out.

I would LOVE to be super proficient at all levels of automation, specifically the hand flying raw data, but everyone is trying to remove it from the equation.
 
I find Bedford's comments in the hearing to be a little perplexing.

Apparently, RAH finds low time pilots to be the most desirable. At least according to his comments that higher time pilots aren't always the sharpest tools in the shed, and that they have to "un-teach" undesirable habits that they build while (maybe paraphrasing) "Flying around in circles".

Had I been sitting in that hearing, I would have asked: "So....prior to circa 2006, what were your hiring minimums when you had absolute control over them?"

When I was hired by CHQ in 2004, I had about 1200 TT. I was, by far, the lowest time guy in my class. Everyone else had well above 2000TT. The only reason I even had a shot was because of my preferential interview from working at a certain flight academy. When I interviewed, everyone had ATP mins and more. There were certainly no 250-500 TT pilots in the room.

Of course, I'm sure that preference for higher time pilots in that time frame was just a mistake, and the drastic lowering of minimums in the few years to follow was a realization of that. (heavy sarcasm implied).
 
Prior to the 1500 hr rule and in all different hiring environments my regional rarely hired guys under 1200tt-1500tt. Not only because of supply, but because our pass-rate plummeted on the initial with guys coming in with no prior turbine/135/121 etc. Not to mention ASAPs, FOQA events, blown tires, hard landings, stressed out CKA etc etc.

Are you magically a better pilot at 1500tt? Of course not, but the odds get better and better the more flight time your require (from a pilot hiring prospective). Truthfully, if I ran the show I'd allow the airlines to hire at 750TT, but no matter what the TT the experience reqs would be 250 hrs of prior 1. 121/135 cargo or pax 2. military 3. 91 subK, with 100 night, 25 actual IMC, or 100 simulated.

But that would make the shortage worse.

EDIT: also the regionals haven't/weren't hiring 250 hr pilots into high performance jets proficiently for the past 75 hrs.
 
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chrisdahut1 said:
Of course, I'm sure that preference for higher time pilots in that time frame was just a mistake, and the drastic lowering of minimums in the few years to follow was a realization of that. (heavy sarcasm implied).
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...or perhaps the 'ol "supply and demand" dictated the experience in your hiring class. There was a huge surplus of pilots in that time frame. Tons of furloughs due to 9/11.

If a 121 first officer position didn't require 1500 hrs then I guarantee that regionals would consider <500 hr guys right now. And if they couldn't fill the positions at 500hrs then they would consider fresh commercials. Sure they want experience, but supply and demand dictates how picky they can be. Now the 1500hr rule is the floor level if how picky they can be. And notice that it is the minimum for EVERY regional right now?? That's because they cannot afford to be extremely picky.
 
chrisdahut1 said:
Had I been sitting in that hearing, I would have asked: "So....prior to circa 2006, what were your hiring minimums when you had absolute control over them?"

When I was hired by CHQ in 2004, I had about 1200 TT. I was, by far, the lowest time guy in my class. Everyone else had well above 2000TT. The only reason I even had a shot was because of my preferential interview from working at a certain flight academy. When I interviewed, everyone had ATP mins and more. There were certainly no 250-500 TT pilots in the room.

Of course, I'm sure that preference for higher time pilots in that time frame was just a mistake, and the drastic lowering of minimums in the few years to follow was a realization of that. (heavy sarcasm implied).
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Well like my above post said, BB said he is more of a fan of the experience in the hours than the number of hours which I tend to agree with. BUT, if the airlines couldn't hire you w/o prior 135/121/military etc type of flight time I think our staffing situation would get drastically worse. I'm hearing most of the new hires have just CFI exp.
 
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jgheggie said:
...or perhaps the 'ol "supply and demand" dictated the experience in your hiring class. There was a huge surplus of pilots in that time frame. Tons of furloughs due to 9/11.

If a 121 first officer position didn't require 1500 hrs then I guarantee that regionals would consider <500 hr guys right now. And if they couldn't fill the positions at 500hrs then they would consider fresh commercials. Sure they want experience, but supply and demand dictates how picky they can be. Now the 1500hr rule is the floor level if how picky they can be. And notice that it is the minimum for EVERY regional right now?? That's because they cannot afford to be extremely picky.
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Yeah...I get all that. (notice the "heavy sarcasm implied" at the end of my post).
 
As aghast as I was when the 1500 hour rule came out, now I'm very glad it did for many reasons. Most of the pilots I've spoken with who rabidly protest it seem to hate flying GA and want nothing but to fly 121 the rest of their lives. I mean to each their own, but...if you don't have fun hand flying a 172 doing what you want, what makes you think you'll love the highly regulated world of 121 flying and spending long stretches of time cruising on A/P? Seems silly to me.
 
ChasenSFO said:
As aghast as I was when the 1500 hour rule came out, now I'm very glad it did for many reasons. Most of the pilots I've spoken with who rabidly protest it seem to hate flying GA and want nothing but to fly 121 the rest of their lives. I mean to each their own, but...if you don't have fun hand flying a 172 doing what you want, what makes you think you'll love the highly regulated world of 121 flying and spending long stretches of time cruising on A/P? Seems silly to me.
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You are wiser than you know.
 
jgheggie said:
...or perhaps the 'ol "supply and demand" dictated the experience in your hiring class. There was a huge surplus of pilots in that time frame. Tons of furloughs due to 9/11.

If a 121 first officer position didn't require 1500 hrs then I guarantee that regionals would consider <500 hr guys right now. And if they couldn't fill the positions at 500hrs then they would consider fresh commercials. Sure they want experience, but supply and demand dictates how picky they can be. Now the 1500hr rule is the floor level if how picky they can be. And notice that it is the minimum for EVERY regional right now?? That's because they cannot afford to be extremely picky.
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In the 06-08 time frame there were a few guys getting hired w/o any exp after the Comm ride, I heard of Eagle hiring a guy in '07 with 194 hrs. I'm to lazy to look up Pt 141 to check the legalities behind that.
 
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ChasenSFO said:
As aghast as I was when the 1500 hour rule came out, now I'm very glad it did for many reasons. Most of the pilots I've spoken with who rabidly protest it seem to hate flying GA and want nothing but to fly 121 the rest of their lives. I mean to each their own, but...if you don't have fun hand flying a 172 doing what you want, what makes you think you'll love the highly regulated world of 121 flying and spending long stretches of time cruising on A/P? Seems silly to me.
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Post of the thread.
 
HVYMETALDRVR said:
In the 06-08 time frame there were a few of guys getting hired w/o any exp after the Comm ride, I heard of Eagle hiring a guy in '07 with 194 hrs. I'm to lazy to look up Pt 141 to check the legalities behind that.
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I took my first flight lesson in high school in 2007. Just an intro flight. During the flight the instructor told me that I would be his first student and that he had 268 hours. I waited about a month and called back to schedule another flight. The office lady said that he quit and went to fly for eagle.
 
ChasenSFO said:
As aghast as I was when the 1500 hour rule came out, now I'm very glad it did for many reasons. Most of the pilots I've spoken with who rabidly protest it seem to hate flying GA and want nothing but to fly 121 the rest of their lives. I mean to each their own, but...if you don't have fun hand flying a 172 doing what you want, what makes you think you'll love the highly regulated world of 121 flying and spending long stretches of time cruising on A/P? Seems silly to me.
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Could this then mean the 1500 hour rule over time is going to weed out the bad attitudes, create higher quality instructors more focused on their job of instructing, giving higher quality training instead of focusing on jumping to a regional, which in turn puts out higher quality pilots who will even be higher quality instructors than their instructors?
 
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