Is a roll that big of a deal?
- Thread starter Holocene
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Bumblebee
Commodore
Pardon me . . . your ignorance, along with your arrogance is showing.
Violating a FAR is by definition unsafe behavior. They are written in blood . . . don't forget that.
This is a discussion about judgment, or lack thereof.
Wacofan, why wait to smoke that killer green, you should just go ahead and do a bong hit in the middle of your sick 1g roll, the bong water won't spill, dude!
WacoFan
Bigly
Righteous! That old Bob Hoover video with him pouring tea in the Shrike as he is doing a barrel-roll is really dated. I can do an updated one as you sugest.
skidz
Well-Known Member
I'm late to the thread, but I just thought I'd say a thing or two. 
I always wanted to do some aerobatics, but honestly I never thought about doing it in an airplane that's not designed/certified for it.
On my first lesson in an c-172 my instructor thought it would be pretty cool to bust few clouds and hammer head the airplane just to show me how cool he was. He was a young guy aspiring to be an Air Force pilot so I guess he was just giving himself a little bit of heads up to what's coming when he gets accepted to the ots. He was lucky enough so he got picked up later on for training in the AF national guard. Maybe the AF did all of us a huge favor by accepting him because, just as Hacker F15 said, some guys just need to get it out of the system.
There were few attempts during my flying years of other people who wanted to show me few different manouvers that went beyond normal training envelope for the aircraft which I dissaproved and never flew with those guys again. There's a place and time (and aircraft) for everything and there's no need to risk lives and property of the pilots or the people on the ground for that matter.
I always wanted to do some aerobatics, but honestly I never thought about doing it in an airplane that's not designed/certified for it.
On my first lesson in an c-172 my instructor thought it would be pretty cool to bust few clouds and hammer head the airplane just to show me how cool he was. He was a young guy aspiring to be an Air Force pilot so I guess he was just giving himself a little bit of heads up to what's coming when he gets accepted to the ots. He was lucky enough so he got picked up later on for training in the AF national guard. Maybe the AF did all of us a huge favor by accepting him because, just as Hacker F15 said, some guys just need to get it out of the system.
There were few attempts during my flying years of other people who wanted to show me few different manouvers that went beyond normal training envelope for the aircraft which I dissaproved and never flew with those guys again. There's a place and time (and aircraft) for everything and there's no need to risk lives and property of the pilots or the people on the ground for that matter.
OldTownPilot
Well-Known Member
I have a ground school to teach in a bit here, but I'll get my materials data tonight for hard numbers later tonight.
Metals under normal loading will elastically deform, and return to their original state. Plastic deformation occurs at very low strains (displacements) in metals. The permeant plastic deformation is in the order of less than a thousandths of an inch per inch. Not very visible at all especially when a half of an inch of plasticly deformed metal can be catastrophic under further loading.
The other thing to consider with this is fatigue failure. As one would assume the higher the repeated load the less cycles until failure. Fatigue cracks in a spar will not be visible in the wing skins, and most likely not with the human eye and a flashlight looking into the inspection holes in the wing.
Barty
Well-Known Member
If it's his airplane and he's the only one who flies it and flies in it, technically he's correct. However, his insurance company wouldn't be pleased with his antics.
Trip7
Well-Known Member
I'm not going to jump in this arguement but I'll add my 2 cents just to help educate the many pilots that are reading this.
As someone along with RyanmickG who has lost friends and a co-worker to the very topic of discussion, YES it is a big deal. I HIGHLY recommend to not try this type of maneuver in a non-acrobatic aircraft.
That's my 2 cents, take it or leave it....
As someone along with RyanmickG who has lost friends and a co-worker to the very topic of discussion, YES it is a big deal. I HIGHLY recommend to not try this type of maneuver in a non-acrobatic aircraft.
That's my 2 cents, take it or leave it....
Lee D
Well-Known Member
With laser beams?
Is it too much to ask to get some Nazis with frickin laser beams on their head!!! I mean really people.
However I will settle for Nazis with a school of ill tempered sea bass at their command.
Lee D
Well-Known Member
Hey hey hey hey!! Remember "profanity filters and you."
"But duuuudddeeee if you do the roll correctly it will just be 1 G & the bong water wont spill!"
Have you tried the fire cheetoes? You can't eat the whole bag in one sit like the regular cheetoes.
I wasn't going to say anything in the beginning, but getting to page 6 I got really annoyed. I can't add anything new to the conv, but I am one of those people who rents every once in a while, takes friends on outings and such. We all get that acrobatics in an unrated plane are unsafe and they really shouldn't be done (though Butt insists it is safe). I did work on software meant for detection of failure in materials. Those cracks can be minute, thinner than hair, many times visible only to the electronic microscope. And they can cause complete failure. And if you missed on page 2, there is a professional stunt pilot video, breaking the wings in flight (which seems to be straight and level) somewhere in Texas, because of the previously induced airframe stress. I'm sure he knew how to do the maneuver, he preflighted the plane properly, and still he died. I don't want to be the guy whose wings fall off in straight and level.
Butt, do me a favor, after H dude rolls the plane while on crack, check the plane (through a thorough preflight), then go roll it yourself (I'm sure you know how to do it properly)
... OK, I shouldn't say that, I really don't want you or Holocene to kill yourselves. But I don't want to fly a plane after someone who thinks he's safe does stupid things in it either. And I don't want to fly in your plane when you are a pilot for some airline. No offense, but poor judgment is manifest in more ways than one.
Holocene, maybe it's just part of growing up... one day you will.
Butt, do me a favor, after H dude rolls the plane while on crack, check the plane (through a thorough preflight), then go roll it yourself (I'm sure you know how to do it properly)
... OK, I shouldn't say that, I really don't want you or Holocene to kill yourselves. But I don't want to fly a plane after someone who thinks he's safe does stupid things in it either. And I don't want to fly in your plane when you are a pilot for some airline. No offense, but poor judgment is manifest in more ways than one.Holocene, maybe it's just part of growing up... one day you will.
Bumblebee
Commodore
or maybe not . . .
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
Sure. What I don't see is how it relates to this argument. What we ARE talking about is an untrained pilot -- Holocene -- trying to perform the maneuver in a non-aerobatic aircraft. This is where there is a high potential for performing the maneuver incorrectly. The result of which is higher than normal aerodynamic loads and stresses, which could damage the aircraft.
If by "unprovoked" you mean the aircraft is sitting on the ramp at one G and zero knots, sure. But any time the aircraft is in flight, there are forces being imparted on it that could be the proverbial straw breaking the back.
Yes, it IS possible to have structural damage severe enough that failure/breakup occurs with only "ordinary" in-flight forces being imparted -- and which does not feature damage visible during a preflight walk-around.
Still no explanation of the 'flip' maneuver, though?
TurdBird
Well-Known Member
Hahahaha. I thought the
I used was as obvious as yours. Gotta go beat some confessions out of people now. :laff:
Bumblebee
Commodore
this is why I love this website . . . and I have learned so much from discussions like this over the last FIVE years. (I can't believe I've been hanging out here for FIVE years)
If you are ignorant about something, you can come here and get educated, or instead just become foolish.
(If you were ignorant, and have people with far more experience share their wisdom with you, and then decide you are going to discard that wisdom in order to remain unknowledgable . . . then that is foolish)
IMHO
In this discussion, I have seen only facts, and uneducated opinions.
TXaviator
Well-Known Member
let me know how that works out when up is no longer up, down is now left, right is running in a circle....and its all black with a few pinpoints of light in every direction.
TXaviator
Well-Known Member
here's a good explanation of the 'flip'.
NO you can't haz vectord thrust. not yourz.
(on this proverbial aerobatic cessna)[YT]4uTfZLQdkHo[/YT]
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