Screaming_Emu
Well-Known Member
Happy birthday! Mine starts in exactly 27 mins
Delta Terminates Freedom Flying
- Thread starter EMcx3
- Start date
Happy birthday! Mine starts in exactly 27 mins
tonyw
Well-Known Member
I expect a drunk dial. If not, I am so kicking your ass and toasting it when you're in net.
Screaming_Emu
Well-Known Member
That's so not going to happen. I have to get up a 3 on saturday so I can jumpseat back to Atlanta.
FlyingSig
Well-Known Member
Just curious (and it may be addressed somewhere between here and page 5, I just haven't gotten there yet)....
What exactly is "holding out" ? Did you wait until you got a whopping 1000 hours before you went to a regional or did you do what like 97% of civilian pilots did prior to 9/11 and instruct for more then a year?
What exactly is a "quality operation"? Just curious because ExpressJet used to be PFT when it was CoEx, historically (got parity with then industry leader ASA in C'97 and went a little ahead in the last contract) has been one of the worse paying with the worse workrule airlines in the regional business (How do I know this? I worked there and was active with the IACP before you guys went ALPA). Correct me if I'm wrong, but first year ERJ pay at ExpressJet is $23/hr while it's $22/hr at Mesa? So for an 80 hour month that's a pay difference of $80. Wow, impressive.
Sorry, JMO, but the term "quality operation" can't be put on any subcontractor (Which is what Mesa and ExpressJet both are). And we see how well flying as your own airline does when you only have RJ's (ExpressJet didn't do any better then Indy/ACA...just pissed away investors money).
Don't get me wrong, CoEx was a fantastic place to work. I can't even count on one hand the people I didn't like working with. There were gems in the contract that other regionals didn't have but the bottom line it was still a regional. Blah blah blah, it changed after I left when it went all jet...whatever, unless you own your own flying you don't control your own destiny. And now it's one that's about to be delisted and one who's CEO was quoted in the Chronicle saying "I don't think we have a sustainable business plan" and that's even if they get pay cuts from you guys. Sad really.
You want to work for a quality operation....you need to work for a few scumbag operations and get some time and experience, some people get lucky the first time but that's the 3%. Once you're competative in the industry, then you can get that good job. "Holding out" does nothing but make you feel good about yourself on internet message boards and costs you senority.
As far as PCL goes, I admire his passion and agree with many but not all of his rants. I do take his "do as I say not as I do" given his work history nor do I tote the ALPA party line quite as much as he does (though I am heavily involved in my own ALPA volunteer work).
/rant....carry on.
Baronman
Well-Known Member
Well just to start...With Mesa historical block for every flight vs. block or better, I'm guessing that's at least a 10% difference a year. Throw on cancellation pay (I've already had over 8 hrs canceled just this month) and I'm sure it's a significant difference.
Also, if you left XJT before it went all jet, then you never worked under contract '04. Our contract got better around that time while Mesa succomed to the Freedom debacle and got a worse contract.
I hear that cliche all the time, "Until you own your own flying you don't control your destiny." Please. You are one of 7,000 dl pilots. Management primarily steers the ship, sure the pilots have some clout but it's management nonetheless that makes the decisions as to where the company goes. You are heard as one of thousands of pilots, how empowered are you really to determine where dl goes as a company? Tell me how much more power you have in what dl management decides to do as opposed to how in my case CAL-->XJT determines what happens to me?
Sure there are less level of bs in your workgroup management relationship, you deal with DL, I deal with XJT which deals with CAL. But either way, we both show up and fly planes and let our voice be heard by our local reps etc.
Nick
Well-Known Member
$23 vs. $22
I agree with most of your post except just this part.
I think on a bad month there could easily be 20% more money credited to an ExpressJet pilot than a Mesa pilot under each's current contract. The work rules are just so vastly different. Cancellation pay! That right there could amount to 5-10 hours a month depending on the part of the country and reasons for cancellations as Mesa which could result in a loss of pay for the crew that should have flown the flight.
Not to mention the vacation clause, 150% pay, days off protection stuff and so forth. XJT may have to cut some of that out but as it stands right now I do think there are notable differences between the various small jet providers out there.
I agree with most of your post except just this part.
I think on a bad month there could easily be 20% more money credited to an ExpressJet pilot than a Mesa pilot under each's current contract. The work rules are just so vastly different. Cancellation pay! That right there could amount to 5-10 hours a month depending on the part of the country and reasons for cancellations as Mesa which could result in a loss of pay for the crew that should have flown the flight.
Not to mention the vacation clause, 150% pay, days off protection stuff and so forth. XJT may have to cut some of that out but as it stands right now I do think there are notable differences between the various small jet providers out there.