Delta Terminates Freedom Flying

"because every new ATP grad wants to fly jets and is willing to take a pay cut for the "jet time."

I will agree with this statement to a degree. I did my research, and a "jet job" is not as important to me as my qol, and yes, i'm an atp grad. I know many atp grads that do not have "sjs". I would much rather instruct, or do something else, until my regional of choice begins hiring again. Not trying to get flamed or anything, but just adding my $.02 worth, for what little that is worth.
 
Heard about this today while flying. Its kind of funny, just as our ERJ is going to pick up (rumors are Cincy) as DCI we're losing the 900s? Oh well, I guess. At least theres no leases we have to pay on them.

I don't think there will be any furloughs here even with all 14 aircraft uncrewed (they have cancelled CRJ vacations every month for a long time now, might make us adequetely staffed or just a little extra), but it is a possibility I suppose. I wish the DCI carrier who picks them up well with it. Just seems like we will stop hiring.


I love you PCL, brother (not like that though). Maybe I am weird but I only like seeing this kind of #### talk from people who either work here or have worked here. I can't begrudge a fellow or former MAGer his or her right to gripe but it does kind of irritate me when people whose only experience with Mesa is seeing us taxing talks such smack. For one there is no benefit to it and it helps noone. Bashing one own's employeer with one's colleagues is a kind of cathartic release for many people regardless of how well or poorly you are treated, but if you've never worked here then why do you feel so strongly?

We're all pilots here, brothers and sisters in a world that I find smaller every day. Think of how much more we could accomplish if instead of bickering we worked together in unity to make things better? Also think of how much easier it will be/is to whipsaw us against eachother when we're all primed with malice for one another.

I had a former ExpressJet captain in my crashpad who left the industry for a while and then came back into it and got a job at Lynx. Do I hate him because he flies an airplane with more than double the passenger seats (37 vs 76) for basically the same pay I get with work conditions not much better? No. All I feel is empathy and a desire to help them if I could. I mean, they had that 10% paycut forced upon them when they're making a pretty good profit -- if they were educated about the benefits a strong union and collective bargaining agreement could have for them they may not have had that problem (plus they probably would have better compensation.)

Do I hate pilots at Colgan because they have work rules that are as bad (and worse in some cases) as ours and pay that is per-seat worse? No. I wish them the best. I hope their ALPA drive goes bananas and as a result they get a contract that blows ours out of the water. A rising tide lifts all boats.

For example, if our TA is shot down (which it may or may not be) the next one will probably still be a 24mo CBA. In 24mo many other regional carriers contracts will be coming up all at the same time. If we all stand together at the same time and issue a fairly uniform contract across the board and say 'Nobody will accept lower than this' then it will make it exponentially more difficult for Management, not only at your company but also at your mainline feed to whipsaw us against each other.
 
We're all pilots here, brothers and sisters in a world that I find smaller every day. Think of how much more we could accomplish if instead of bickering we worked together in unity to make things better? Also think of how much easier it will be/is to whipsaw us against eachother when we're all primed with malice for one another.

Yep....

And someone who was a gulfstreamer "educating" about Mesa is absolutely ridiculous.
 
Not everyone had JetCareers to educate them about what they shouldn't do when they were a kid, Emu. Providing that kind of education is why the JC community is so valuable and much more so when it is not filled with animosity.
 
Not everyone had JetCareers to educate them about what they shouldn't do when they were a kid, Emu. Providing that kind of education is why the JC community is so valuable and much more so when it is not filled with animosity.
Well said. Besides PCL has paid his dues to society by seeing the light and being a valuable member of Pinnacle ALPA during his time there. Heck, he's not even at an ALPA carrier and still preaches ALPA like it's the gospel!:D
 
Not everyone had JetCareers to educate them about what they shouldn't do when they were a kid, Emu. Providing that kind of education is why the JC community is so valuable and much more so when it is not filled with animosity.

Have to agree here. My best friend got screwed by ATA (the school, not the airline), and was a hair away from going to Gulfstream. I hadn't joined up here yet, and I was considering it. Hell, if I hadn't found JC and could get approval for the loan, I might have even gone to JetU or something similar.
 
The industry is out to make money and can't handle prima dona salaries at an entry level job. You work at eXpress jet, not netjets. Its all about supply and demand, there is no demand for XJET FOs, because every new ATP grad wants to fly jets and is willing to take a pay cut for the "jet time." There are, however, great shortages in pilots in other sectors of the industry. Flight instructors are running dry,freight dawgs are in short supply, 207 drivers in Bethel and the north slope are at an all time low, and upgrade into the Caravan is happening faster than ever before.

</rant>

It depends where you go. Freight dogs are really not in such short supply right now where I work, Ram Air Freight. Six months ago at Ram Air, we had a constantly revolving door. I was two or three runs a day because we were so short on pilots. Today, we actually have a few too many pilots according to management. Nobody is leaving. And we have guys with over 5,000 hours TT and multiple type ratings that are applying and trying to get jobs here. We just don't have the room for them.

I think that there are still a number of flight instructing jobs available though.
 
well Said. Besides Pcl Has Paid His Dues To Society By Being Seeing The Light And Being A Valuable Member Of Pinnacle Alpa During His Time There. Heck, He's Not Even At An Alpa Carrier And Still Preaches Alpa Like It's The Gospel!:d

Ding Ding Ding!!!! :)
 
Freedom only has seven of the 14 ordered; 600LR-607LR, that's why it originally said 7. Comair is to get all 14 aircraft from what the director of mx told us on our conf call today. The remaining seven will have CA N#s
 
It depends where you go. Freight dogs are really not in such short supply right now where I work, Ram Air Freight. Six months ago at Ram Air, we had a constantly revolving door. I was two or three runs a day because we were so short on pilots. Today, we actually have a few too many pilots according to management. Nobody is leaving. And we have guys with over 5,000 hours TT and multiple type ratings that are applying and trying to get jobs here. We just don't have the room for them.

I think that there are still a number of flight instructing jobs available though.


True to an extent, I still see a constant stream of jobs open for freight guys at climb to 350.
 
What it really comes down to at the end of the day is ego, this argument is all about ego. You (and a good many others out there. so please don't take it personal as this is not flame per se) want to be the "Airline Pilot." You want to walk around in the monkey suit at the airport terminal while all the civilians look at you in awe. "How smart he must be to be a pilot." Well, flying isn't about that. Flying isn't about prestige, or even about the whopping 600hrs of turbine SIC you have accumulated, flying is about your personal connection with the sky, and the joy you feel by doing something challenging. The sooner people realize that flying at Mesa/Expressjet/United/whatever won't solve their life's problems and catapult them into greatness and wealth, that flying at any company won't change anything about them, and the only thing that can make you happy is your self, the sooner they will really find true happiness, and will feel worthwhile, and satisfied with the way things are.

</rant>
What is it with this industry and belittling everyone who chooses a different path than you? Do bridge architects sit on message boards and flame the skyscraper architects? Do they accuse each other of "shiny skyscraper syndrome"?

Maybe I don't want to fly a caravan around, maybe it simply doesn't interest me. But I hope you rubbed one out while typing that up. I'm sure your ego had nothing to do with it Mr. "Alaska Pilot" secretly waiting for a discovery channel filmmaker to come visit him so he can show the world what a tough loner guy he is flying in Alaska... :rolleyes:
 
What is it with this industry and belittling everyone who chooses a different path than you? Do bridge architects sit on message boards and flame the skyscraper architects? Do they accuse each other of "shiny skyscraper syndrome"?

Maybe I don't want to fly a caravan around, maybe it simply doesn't interest me. But I hope you rubbed one out while typing that up. I'm sure your ego had nothing to do with it Mr. "Alaska Pilot" secretly waiting for a discovery channel filmmaker to come visit him so he can show the world what a tough loner guy he is flying in Alaska... :rolleyes:

What is it with this industry and belittling everyone who chooses a different path than you?
-----
Hmm, I'm one of about 10 people on this forum who think that if you don't want to get a CFI then don't, and I won't knock anyone down who tried to do it a different way. I respect that. Just as much as I respect people who did go the traditional way. So that is kind of a non-sequitor.

As for belittling, I'm not belittling anyone, if its what you truly want to do, then by god, do it. Do you think I want to drive 207s around every day for the rest of my life? Hell no, do you think there's not something I want to be doing when I finish my degree? Hell, I have SJS, I want to fly lear 35s one day, if that means I'll have to take a pay cut to drive, I probably will. Will I bitch and moan about the lack of pay that comes from it? Probably not. Its about what you want out of it, if you want to fly ERJs that bad, then go and do it, just don't complain about the pay because it comes with the territory.


Maybe I don't want to fly a caravan around, maybe it simply doesn't interest me.

Then don't. But don't expect any sympathy from everyone else who would be grateful to drive a Turbine Suburban around because you feel that you're owed a job because of all of your experience.


I hope you rubbed one out while typing that up. I'm sure your ego had nothing to do with it Mr. "Alaska Pilot" secretly waiting for a discovery channel filmmaker to come visit him so he can show the world what a tough loner guy he is flying in Alaska...

The beginning of this is almost obscene so I'm not entirely sure I want to justify it with an answer, that being said, I find your tone to be slightly more than insulting. Ego doesn't really work for pilots up here like it works down in America, everyone and his brother knows how to fly up here, its not all that special. I'm not a member of some elite flying club, nor do I have any illusions to my skill because if I ever think I'm good, there's always some old timer with 20000 plus TT in everything with wings who can put me in my place. As for a discovery channel special, well, I'll leave that to Paul Claus or one of the others like him, I want to stay below the radar so I don't lose my certs. Ego, on the otherhand, clearly went into your personal rebuttle of my statements. Yours was clearly hurt. In particular, you probably feel upset that someone is stating that your career pathway is invalid, or too easy, or a whole multitude of derogatory adjectives. It is not wrong for you to feel upset either, but what I recommend is that you look inside yourself and detirmine the true source of your feelings as to this regard, rather than lash out at posts on the internet. And finally, for the love of god, everyone, quit complaining so much, we have it really really really good.
 
Guys.....guys...guys!:argue::banghead: Hey lets everyone step away from their keyboards and go drink a tall frosty adult beverage of their choosing!:D
Clocks, your getting Max all worked up by talking about rubbing one out!:crazy:
 
Guys.....guys...guys!:argue::banghead: Hey lets everyone step away from their keyboards and go drink a tall frosty adult beverage of their choosing!:D
Clocks, your getting Max all worked up by talking about rubbing one out!:crazy:

Max is always worked up! Plus I agree! Drinks for all... however I'm getting furloughed so I cant buy..... I'll pro rate it and pay when I get back to the line! :)
 
What is it with this industry and belittling everyone who chooses a different path than you? Do bridge architects sit on message boards and flame the skyscraper architects? Do they accuse each other of "shiny skyscraper syndrome"?

Maybe I don't want to fly a caravan around, maybe it simply doesn't interest me. But I hope you rubbed one out while typing that up. I'm sure your ego had nothing to do with it Mr. "Alaska Pilot" secretly waiting for a discovery channel filmmaker to come visit him so he can show the world what a tough loner guy he is flying in Alaska... :rolleyes:

One could only wish it was JUST this industry! ITS EVERYWHERE! No matter what you do we all think we are right and we know more than the next guy!

I spent 18 years in transportation. Its there to! The "scabs" who worked at our non-union competitors where the "downfall" of the industry!

This is a really old argument, I seriously doubt it will ever go away! at least not as long as we all have an opinion.
 
Heh, it's true. Disney union guys used to talk about the "scabs" over at Universal and Sea World. Oddly enough, Sea World paid $3 more an hour and had about the same benefits....except you also got free beer.
 
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