Repeal Age 65

Orange Anchor said:
About the only thing you have proven with your posts is Phil Gramm was right. You seem to exemplify his argument.
Click to expand...

Phil Gramm is an ass. Never seen someone more out of touch with average Americans. But that's a subject for another thread.

But I do have to retract one argument. There are some guarantees. You are going to be very well known by the Captains and F/Os when/IF you make it through upgrade. GUARANTEED!
Click to expand...

Hate to disappoint you, but I've already been a Captain. Spent a couple of years in the left seat, and never made it onto anyone's no-fly list. Guess your "guarantee" isn't worth jack.
 
Orange Anchor said:
Let's cut him some slack. The guy is doing more damage to himself (and his family if he has one) than anyone else.
Click to expand...

Wow.

Bringing another aviation professional's family into a debate on the internet.

Amazing.

Come on guys. . .all of you. . .Todd. . .these debates may be senseless and repetitive, but perhaps it's time to throw the towel in boss. At least with the one's that are constantly getting quoted, you guys (all involved) are not getting anywhere.

In the end. . .Issues facing the industry

1) High oil prices
2) Too much capacity
3) Too little ticket prices
4) Poor financials
5) Too many flight crews
6) Age 65
7) Now guys getting put out on the street.

I know we all would like to blame ONE thing for our current troubles, but we all can agree it wasn't just Age 65. Sure, if the retirement age was still 60 less guys MIGHT be out on the street - MIGHT. We can argue til we are blue in the face trying to defend each of our positions, but nothing is going to change. And it's clear to me that some tones in this whole discussion is extremely - well. . .embarrassing. It's funny reading through this whole thread a seeing exactly where things got out of hand (obviously, in my humble opinion).

Especially when we start bringing our families into some damn online debate.
 
Good lord people, take a breath.

Relax.

Breathe in....

Breathe out...

The internet is not an emergency.

The industry is in too much turmoil to be slinging barbs back and forth when ya'll need to be networking with each other to stay afloat.
 
PCL_128 said:
I disagree. I've talked to ALPA staffers that have been around for over 30 years at ALPA, and they've said that they've never seen it this bad. I lived through the post-9/11 recession, and it was a cake-walk compared to this. This is truly as bad as this industry has ever seen.
Click to expand...

Just cause the all mighty ALPA gods say it's the worst, doesn't make it true.

I really don't care to get into this debate but I'm with a couple of the others. Watching you argue is extremely close minded, comical, and you don't need others to start the train wreck. You do that well yourself.

So I thought you were done with JC?
 
I yi yi...nice. :rolleyes:

I know we're all guilty of making posts in a thread that we say we have no intent in taking part in, but then we usually decide rightly not to make a post in a thread we didn't care to take part in - but of course - in usual JC fashion - gotta get one last jab / attack in right?

The internet. . .it's an amazing thing.
 
I think it is disgusting to use pilots over the age of 60 as a scapegoat for a down-turn in the airline industry. There are many things wrong with the current system thats in place in the United States. Pilots flying over age 60 isn't one of them.
Historically speaking, the first time that a mandatory retirement age was mandated had absolutely nothing to do with safety. It was because of corruption at the highest levels in the FAA and boardrooms of Pan Am, TWA, EAL, etc... Quesada was a crook, and so was Rickenbacker and Howard Hughes. Irrespective of their accomplishments, military records and service. These men basically tossed out their high-seniority pilots citing safety when it was really all about the bottom-line. Today, we are seeing the same scenario in reverse.
 
PCL_128 said:
Phil Gramm is an ass. Never seen someone more out of touch with average Americans. But that's a subject for another thread.

Hate to disappoint you, but I've already been a Captain. Spent a couple of years in the left seat, and never made it onto anyone's no-fly list. Guess your "guarantee" isn't worth jack.
Click to expand...

Darby is worthless. Deakin is a know nothing. Gramm is an ass. Seems others are all the problem. See a common thread here?

Because you didn't make it on a no-fly list is no indication of anything. But time to do something productive... off to buy some nice cabernets, merlots, a few shiraz, one or two pinots and ALL WITH YOUR MONEY I took out of your pocket. :D

Thanks...
 
surreal1221 said:
Wow.

Bringing another aviation professional's family into a debate on the internet.
Especially when we start bringing our families into some damn online debate.
Click to expand...

first off, it is questionable if this guy IS a professional with threats to write guys up to destroy their careers, something he is constantly whining about happening to him. Second, his posts are quite angry and one has to doubt this forum is the only area where it is vented. He suggests everyone else is the cause of his problems, that people are stealing his money by not retiring at age 60.. and when challenged to provide supporting documents for his opinions, he retreats.

Truth is...I truly feel sorry for the guy. And for those who fly with him.
 
Orange Anchor said:
threats to write guys up to destroy their careers
Click to expand...

I'm not personally threatening to write up anyone. I don't write up fellow pilots, even ones I consider to be scum. I've flown with a couple of the over 60 guys so far, and I didn't write them up, but I wasn't exactly friendly with them either. A very quiet flight deck for a few days. But I do know of some other guys that are specifically looking for reasons to write these guys up. Better watch your back.
 
The point of the whole debate is moot. The retirement age is 65. 60 ain't coming back as long as the US is a member of ICAO.

So, fuggetaboudit.
 
Velocipede said:
The point of the whole debate is moot. The retirement age is 65. 60 ain't coming back as long as the US is a member of ICAO.

So, fuggetaboudit.
Click to expand...

I gotta agree wholeheartedly with Velo on this.

We can argue and complain about everything about age 60 and whether or not it's good or bad or whatever.

It's not going to go back to 60.

It just isn't.

So we can either drive forward looking in the rearview mirror bickering about the exit we just passed and risk getting in a wreck cause we're not paying attention, or we can look out the windshield and concentrate on where we're going from here.
 
mikecweb said:
I ask you this PCL, if you were 59 when this was passed would you retire so a co-pilot could upgrade?
Click to expand...

If I were 59 when this passed, I would have retired upon my 60th birthday because those are the rules I signed up for. In fact, my retirement savings plan is based on retiring no later than the age of 55, and hopefully sooner if I can average a rate of return higher than 8% on my B-fund and 401(k). Everyone started this career knowing that 60 was the mandatory retirement age. There is no legitimate excuse for not being able to afford retirement at that age.
 
Orange Anchor said:
first off, it is questionable if this guy IS a professional with threats to write guys up to destroy their careers, something he is constantly whining about happening to him. Second, his posts are quite angry and one has to doubt this forum is the only area where it is vented. He suggests everyone else is the cause of his problems, that people are stealing his money by not retiring at age 60.. and when challenged to provide supporting documents for his opinions, he retreats.

Truth is...I truly feel sorry for the guy. And for those who fly with him.
Click to expand...

Well, he was a pretty calm dude about 10 months ago over some beer, burgers, and wings.

Lost in Translation may be a very acceptable term for the current "Internet" battle.

Nevertheless, we're all in the Atlanta area and I would hope we all could at some point in the future get together.
 
surreal1221 said:
Well, he was a pretty calm dude about 10 months ago over some beer, burgers, and wings.

Lost in Translation may be a very acceptable term for the current "Internet" battle.

Nevertheless, we're all in the Atlanta area and I would hope we all could at some point in the future get together.
Click to expand...

Yep. The net tends to dry things out a bit. But I can think of plenty of reasons to need to keep working including loss of pension, catastrophic illness in family, poor investing (yes, I know.. rarely a factor for airline pilots but for lesser mortals...). And if nothing else, some of the OFs (as PCL refers to them) still enjoy flying, the interaction with the crews.

I don't miss the hassles or the stuff that inevitably occurs with mergers but I do miss the lengthy discussions on widely varying subjects. I could be wrong but I ran into more people with more diversified interests in the airline biz than any other community I have known. I enjoyed flying the Boeings, the 'bus and the MadDog but not enough to want to go back.

But it is not a static world even though it is a popular game to accuse people of changing positions on issues and the facts are that things change, needs change, laws change.

The age 65 rule is NOT going to be repealed. The old guys are NOT going to retire to aid some young F/O upgrade. And as long as they can pass the checkrides, continue to obtain a medical, there is no reason for them to retire except an arbitrary ruling that sets an age limit. We have all been in a cockpit with someone and wondered how the hell they got pass the airport fence, much less into a cockpit. But that is an individual factor and not a function specifically tied to age. And if it will help PCL get beyond his anger and end his screed I will buy the burgers and beer.
 
Orange Anchor said:
Yep. The net tends to dry things out a bit. But I can think of plenty of reasons to need to keep working including loss of pension, catastrophic illness in family, poor investing (yes, I know.. rarely a factor for airline pilots but for lesser mortals...).
Click to expand...

The last major carrier to go out of business was Pan Am in December of '91. That's a full 17 years ago. In the preceding years, EAL, Braniff, People Express, among others all ceased to exist. There has been no illusion about the safety of pensions in a very long time. Everyone was put on notice a long time ago in this industry that you need to prepare your own retirement outside of your pension plan. If you didn't do that, then I have little sympathy.

And if nothing else, some of the OFs (as PCL refers to them) still enjoy flying, the interaction with the crews.
Click to expand...

Someone's enjoyment of flying doesn't eclipse the need of a junior pilot to make a living to feed and house his family.

And if it will help PCL get beyond his anger and end his screed I will buy the burgers and beer.
Click to expand...

Make it a vodka tonic and I'm game. ;)
 
PCL_128 said:
There has been no illusion about the safety of pensions in a very long time. Everyone was put on notice a long time ago in this industry that you need to prepare your own retirement outside of your pension plan. If you didn't do that, then I have little sympathy.
Click to expand...

You're all heart. I note in another thread you speak of your beliefs and it is apparent you know the Bible. So... you know the Scripture in Matthew 7. "Judge not that ye be not judged" which is where most stop but it continues 'For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged and with what measure ye mete, it will be measured to you again." So the Scriptures do not say "Judge Not" because we all judge or evaluate. But you have no sympathy for those who lost pensions or who have financial needs. Live by the sword. Die by the sword. No sympathy for others...no sympathy for you, PCL.

Someone's enjoyment of flying doesn't eclipse the need of a junior pilot to make a living to feed and house his family.
Click to expand...
Maybe their need exceeds yours. No one made you get married and no one forced you to have children. It was YOUR choice just like it is THEIR choice. What I can't understand is why you think your world takes precedent over others. What is this... the world according to PCL?

Make it a vodka tonic and I'm game. ;)
Click to expand...
I don't buy angry people drinks... it only makes them more angry. Absent the anger...I buy... but not before.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top