Rumot mill running fast: New ASA mins come Jan 08

Status
Not open for further replies.
Oh, don't worry. Thanks for another kind JC member I already have an ASA RJ-200 POH.

Thanks Dan.

Just hope I end up working for them, AND - don't get the ATR (not that I wouldn't mind it. . .) - I just don't have an ATR POH. :)
 
Serious question, and no disrespect to any here. With these new lower minimums, how low is too low? We have to assume that the FO could be put in a position to where he/she has to make captain decisions and perhaps fly solo in demanding conditions in the event the captain is incapacitated. Is overall safety being compromised by having airline pilots with very little to no experience base?

I'm taking off my "I know they are trained well" inside view of things and imagining my family boarding a regional jet that has a 200 hour first officer. I am having difficulty being comfortable with that whole idea.
 
aloft said:
the only differences between military and civilian training are the selection standards, the washout rates, and the quality of the equipment.
Click to expand...

I'd argue that those are pretty big differences. I know of someone who took THREE tries to get their initial CFI. I doubt the military would have let them take a stage check (or whatever their equivalent is) three times then let them move on....especially to teach others. They more than likely would have washed them out. I was honestly surprised the FSDO let it go that far. Also, selection standards mean you have a certain parameter for students. They learn quickly, they already have built-in knowledge of items that you can build on, etc. The selection criteria for GA flight academies is a bank account. You can have the IQ of a turnipseed, but if you can get approved for a big enough loan, you can eventually get your CMEL.

BTW, the last rumored figure for our FO washout rate was nearing 50%, and there hasn't been a significant change in the training syllabus, just the quality of the new hires.
 
sorrygottarunway said:
HEY! 250TT or not, these new FOs better know how to land the plane in a crosswind, or I swear I'm going to grab out my TSA-approved 2x4 and whack them good.
Click to expand...

Cross-coordinate as needed to maintain runway alignment with a watchful eye on airpspeed...
<---------- (see avatar... my pa-28 @ KMTO)


...OUCH. Whaddja hit me with that board for?... :p
 
Murdoughnut said:
You guys should be happy with these mins - if all of the regionals go to 250 then the only thing they'll have left to do is raise pay or risk going belly up.
Click to expand...

That is definitely the bright side. At this point, management has pretty much hit the bottom on qualifications, so they'll soon have to bargain to raise payrates to attract applicants. Carriers like Pinnacle and Mesa will find it more and more difficult to staff classes as time goes on. If even the good carriers like ASA are dredging the bottom of the barrel to get pilots, then the substandard employers are going to be in real trouble.
 
PCL_128 said:
That is definitely the bright side. At this point, management has pretty much hit the bottom on qualifications, so they'll soon have to bargain to raise payrates to attract applicants. Carriers like Pinnacle and Mesa will find it more and more difficult to staff classes as time goes on. If even the good carriers like ASA are dredging the bottom of the barrel to get pilots, then the substandard employers are going to be in real trouble.
Click to expand...

And most importantly Gulfstream's PFT operation goes under :nana2:
 
Murdoughnut said:
And most importantly Gulfstream's PFT operation goes under :nana2:
Click to expand...

It's already happening!!! Gulfstream is resorting to hiring FOs off the street without PFT because they can't staff with PFTers anymore. It's a beautiful thing. Just gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling knowing that that POS Tom Cooper is actually having to treat his FOs like real employees for once. :rawk:
 
PCL_128 said:
It's already happening!!! Gulfstream is resorting to hiring FOs off the street without PFT because they can't staff with PFTers anymore. It's a beautiful thing. Just gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling knowing that that POS Tom Cooper is actually having to treat his FOs like real employees for once. :rawk:
Click to expand...

I've been wondering when that would start to happen....
 
BTW, the last rumored figure for our FO washout rate was nearing 50%, and there hasn't been a significant change in the training syllabus, just the quality of the new hires.[/QUOTE]

How does that impact your future if you tank the training? Do you have to wait a certain amount of time or will other airlines even look at you?
 
From what an airline recruiter told me, you will be hard pressed to find another airlien that will hire you if they find out.
 
That's pretty much not true..

I can name probably 5 guys who have washed out 1 place and are all happily employed somewhere else..
 
I mean, I wouldn't try going around failing out of training and it is definitely not a good thing, but it is not a career killer.. :D
 
Seggy said:
Maybe everyone out there is a much better pilot than me, but at 250 hours I was just learning how to fly a complex aircraft like an Arrow, not a RJ.

At 50 hours of multi, I was so happy that I kissed the ground when I landed in EYW in the Seneca, making it there without killing myself, much less paying passengers in the back.
Click to expand...

One of my first solo flights in a twin was well after I had my CFI in a single. I went IFR at night and was having a blast but throughout the flight I had the adrenaline going along with the 'wtf am I doing' feeling.

At the time I probably had 300/25. That was one of my most memorable and fun flights. But if I had 50+ paying people behind me it would have been borderline criminal!
 
The math has been done.

The risk is being evaluated, overseas.

IF...... it works out, overseas..... then expect the MPL rating to show up in the United States around 2010 or shortly there after.

When that happens, along with age 65, the airlines will enjoy a pilot surplus going forward that they control.

Why? The age 65 buys them time to transition to MPL training programs. The MPL gives them options that include:

(1) Pilot pay for MPL training

(2) Community college or University program MPL grads

(3) Airline cost share MPL.

Mix or match, or combinations of the above. It will happen. Boeing has put a pile of money on it and the airlines are on board.

Long term this means lower career earnings for a pilot.

ERAU has already denounced it, FAA says they are not interested (like they were interested in 65?), but watch..... once the momentum starts, ERAU will be first with a program.

Money talks, BS walks. There is a big pile of money to make this happen so that a small pile of money is all that is needed to pay a pilot over the course of a career.

It's just math.
 
seaav8tor said:
The math has been done.

The risk is being evaluated, overseas.

IF...... it works out, overseas..... then expect the MPL rating to show up in the United States around 2010 or shortly there after.

When that happens, along with age 65, the airlines will enjoy a pilot surplus going forward that they control.

Why? The age 65 buys them time to transition to MPL training programs. The MPL gives them options that include:

(1) Pilot pay for MPL training

(2) Community college or University program MPL grads

(3) Airline cost share MPL.

Mix or match, or combinations of the above. It will happen. Boeing has put a pile of money on it and the airlines are on board.

Long term this means lower career earnings for a pilot.

ERAU has already denounced it, FAA says they are not interested (like they were interested in 65?), but watch..... once the momentum starts, ERAU will be first with a program.

Money talks, BS walks. There is a big pile of money to make this happen so that a small pile of money is all that is needed to pay a pilot over the course of a career.

It's just math.
Click to expand...

ALPA has been working on the MPL issue since early last year behind the scenes. I'm not sure what the latest developments are, but Captain Rice himself was in charge of dealing with this, and I can assure you that he feels very strongly about stopping this program from making it to the US. I don't think it's a foregone conclusion at all that the MPL will make it here.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top