PCL hires 8 of 11 from ATP

[zmiller4]

This topic is getting kicked so bad its worthless to debate it, let alone read it.

And yet you go on and post a couple of hundred words in response....

It doesn't matter how you feel about the time requirements, because you are not the one making the hiring decisions.

It absolutely does matter for those of us that work for airlines. It's most crucial how the captains feel, because they're the ones that have to fly with us FO's and are responsible for the safety of the flight. It matters to us FO's because we're going to be captains someday (unless we're at Eagle), and then we'll be in the hot seat.

I've flown with ATP candidates with 3000 hours who can't fly an ILS approach to save their live and if the checklist doesn't tell them what to do, they haven't a clue. Yet I've had 200 hour students going for their Instrument rating who can fly an ILS approach perfect to mins and have decision making skills that the 3000hr pilot would envy.

Correction: you've flown with ATP candidates with 3000hrs who can't fly an ILS in the specific aircraft you were teaching them in to save their life. A 200-hr ATP student would probably be better than a lot of airline pilots in a seminole because they're familiar with the airplane. What you're seeing is a small snapshot of that person's flying skills, not the big picture of what they're like as a pilot.

Some people should NOT be Airline pilots, reguardless of how many hours they have, some people can make GREAT airline pilots at 400hrs.

Great at 400hrs? I'd strongly disagree.

 

[Trip7]

http://forums.jetcareers.com/showthread.php?t=31911
another post well said.

When the planes start falling out of the sky because of 500hr pilots you guys can talk to me about experience. Until then, your theories are based only on numbers in your logbook and your past experiences, not facts. Once again if you missed it the first time, talk to me when a 500 hr pilot crashes the plane!

 

[BobDDuck]

I have nothing to back it up, but I don't think I belong in a jet with 1,000 hours. 600 hours and into a turboprop? Cool, I think that's a good speed for a 600 hour pilot (like me).

Interesting thought here... is a jet that much more complex then a tprop when coming from a simple light twin? Personally from the two times I jumpseated on a dash 8 and the other few times I've sat up front on an ERJ (both planes I've never flown) I thought the jet looked a lot easier to get into. That may be just because I am currently flying a jet so the transfer of knowledge was there. On the other hand there were a whole lot more levers and knobs in the dash 8 and even though their speed is slower they are expected to do 170 down final like everybody else when they go into busy airports. Sure, they can throw out the brakes short final but at the point a landing is a landing.

 

[SteveC]

http://forums.jetcareers.com/showthread.php?t=31911
another post well said.

When the planes start falling out of the sky because of 500hr pilots you guys can talk to me about experience. Until then, your theories are based only on numbers in your logbook and your past experiences, not facts. Once again if you missed it the first time, talk to me when a 500 hr pilot crashes the plane!

Since when is crashing a plane the deciding factor if a pilot is good or not? Crazy talk there, young man.

:insane:

 

[kellwolf]

http://forums.jetcareers.com/showthread.php?t=31911
another post well said.

When the planes start falling out of the sky because of 500hr pilots you guys can talk to me about experience.\

Flagship 3701. There's one for ya. Guys had more than 500 hours, but didn't have near the decision making skills or discipline to treat the job as a PROFESSION. Also, when planes start falling out of the sky for one specific reason rather than a chain of events, let me know.

It's not the crashes. It's not "my way is the ONLY way." It's the fact that people with that low amount of time become a burden on the captain in a lot of situations. That's not part of the job of an FO. You're there to aid the captain, not making his life harder. If the big boys didn't want you to have experience, why aren't I flying at Southwest already? Hell, if I didn't need the 1000-1500 PIC turbine, I'd probably already be there. But according to you, a 500 hour pilot is perfectly fine.

Now, ATP does a good job of showing how many people are hired. Now, do they follow up and re-post how many people make it through ground school, IOE and their probation? THAT would be a better stat.....

 

[Trip7]

Since when is crashing a plane the deciding factor if a pilot is good or not? Crazy talk there, young man.

:insane:

Obviously when those that disagree with me suggest that the inexperience compromises the safety of a flight over the whole spectrum. Obviously ATP is doing something right, or else the airlines would not consistantly keep hiring their graduates who 99.9% turn out to be excellent pilots. FACTS is what I have, theories about your individual experiences and that magic number in your logbook is all those that oppose me have.

 

[Trip7]

Flagship 3701. There's one for ya. Guys had more than 500 hours, but didn't have near the decision making skills or discipline to treat the job as a PROFESSION.

Thank you for proving my point. Everything you named are INDIVIDUAL flaws those pilots had a airmen. No amount of hours in the world will change that.

Now, ATP does a good job of showing how many people are hired. Now, do they follow up and re-post how many people make it through ground school, IOE and their probation? THAT would be a better stat.....

glady...

My airline has hired about 1500 pilots since I came on... maybe 40 of them were ATP. I'm only aware of 1 washing out of GS. The rest... even myself... had the same learning curve to overcome that the other 1400+ did.

Capt Bob

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

Are you a troll? This isn't flight info.

 

[SteveC]

777, just curious if you have any response to an earlier post of mine. Don't recall your addressing it directly (although I might have missed it). http://forums.jetcareers.com/showpost.php?p=430939&postcount=97






(Spira, I don't think he's a troll. He's just a young guy that believes he understands what is involved in flying airplanes day in and day out better than people with experience doing exactly that. Not (necessarily) a fatal flaw - I was that way once too. Along the way I learned to listen a little bit more, talk a little bit less, and I also learned that I don't even come close to knowing it all. )

 

[MikeD]

Obviously when those that disagree with me suggest that the inexperience compromises the safety of a flight over the whole spectrum. Obviously ATP is doing something right, or else the airlines would not consistantly keep hiring their graduates who 99.9% turn out to be excellent pilots. FACTS is what I have, theories about your individual experiences and that magic number in your logbook is all those that oppose me have.

Does the Kool-Aid taste good?

Seriously, you gotta be a little bit more open minded here, son.

 

[surreal1221]

Are you a troll? This isn't flight info.

I think he has spent too much time in his 777 on Microsoft Flight Simulator. . . it r0x3rz.

Perhaps there should be some sort of way to verify new members have at least a medical certificate. Perhaps some question about the text on the back of the medical certificate that has to be answered correctly before their account is validated. I'm pretty sure that would ward off all of these sim kids, and it won't violate anyone's privacy as it's asking about a statement on the back of the certificate.

Doughy!?

 

[BobDDuck]

Perhaps there should be some sort of way to verify new members have at least a medical certificate. Perhaps some question about the text on the back of the medical certificate that has to be answered correctly before their account is validated. I'm pretty sure that would ward off all of these sim kids, and it won't violate anyone's privacy as it's asking about a statement on the back of the certificate.

Doughy!?

I think you need to go back and read the mission statement on the front page of this site.

 

[surreal1221]

I think you need to go back and read the mission statement on the front page of this site.

I know - After looking for this "mission statement" I am at a lost. Linkage? I know, and understand the intent of this site. That of which I am greatful for. It has provided me, and many others with honest ambitions for the aviation industry a gold mine of information. In my humble opinion, what should not be allowed to happen, is to allow rampant ignorant statements from those who have no more experience than a couple thousand hours of MSFS. Perhaps a quarantine of those types (w/o a med cert) to a certain portion of the forums would suffice. Or more specifically, a series of forums only for those who can successfully answer the back of the med cert question can only have access to the pro pilot forum(s).

Merely a simple idea, but I'll take that link to the mission statement in PM or here. I attempted a search for "Mission Statement" and found nothing.

But it'd help from turning this place into fxxxxxxxxo.com.

BTW - Questionable Content r0x3rz.

 

[Trip7]

I think he has spent too much time in his 777 on Microsoft Flight Simulator. . . it r0x3rz.

Perhaps there should be some sort of way to verify new members have at least a medical certificate. Perhaps some question about the text on the back of the medical certificate that has to be answered correctly before their account is validated. I'm pretty sure that would ward off all of these sim kids, and it won't violate anyone's privacy as it's asking about a statement on the back of the certificate.

Doughy!?

Conditions of Issue

This certificate shall be in the personal possession of the airman at all times while exercising the privileges of his or her airman certificate. The issuance of a medical certificate by an Aviation Medical Examiner may be reversed by the FAA wihtin 60 days. Unless reversed or otherwise limited in duration, this certificate, in accordance wiht 61.23 (14 CFR part 61) becomes valid for the time limits specified below. Need anymore proof?

There goes that theory! Oh if you have time go to http://aviation.sosu.edu. In the top left hand corner its says Fish Fry Scholarship winners, and a pic below it. In the red and navy shirt on the bottom row, yeah buddy, thats me:nana2:

 

[stillageek]

I believe Pinnacle is pulling a fast one on ATP and other new hires. Of the 8 that were hired...only one got a phone call with info on showing up for class on the 11th. They *might* have another class at the end of the month. My instructor was one of the ones who was hired. I told him he was better off and show apply at Expressjet anyway.

 

[surreal1221]

Good. . . congratulations. You are cleared. Now how do we combat the couple hundred flight sim aces?

 

[B767Driver]

There was one guy in my class from CAPT with 220 hours total, and there were about 6 out of the class that didn't make it though the sims/IOE. The ride isn't over yet for the ATP guys. If they don't make it through ground school, it's gonna be tough to get another regional job with those hours.

BTW, wheelsup. It's not $19/hr, it's $20.73. Don't gip me of my extra $1.73.

That's a very high wash out rate. That should say something in and of itself about that company's screening program. When I was on the hiring board at a commuter line...the one thing I wanted to be sure of was that the applicant was NOT going to wash. This whole situation seems like...."well let's give them a shot and see how they do. If they wash out...that's their problem." Then the training dept bent over backwards to get the guys thru. (Well most of the training guys anyway.)

A part 121 training program is tough. I think putting these guys in is actually not in the best interest of the applicant. They should be more prepared...that's evident by the wash out rate.

 

[Trip7]

Good. . . congratulations. You are cleared. Now how do we combat the couple hundred flight sim aces?

lol...dunno, haven't encountered any of them on this forum but if you go to Avsim.com or Airliners.net you will be amazed at some of the expert comments these guys make!

 

[kellwolf]

I believe Pinnacle is pulling a fast one on ATP and other new hires. Of the 8 that were hired...only one got a phone call with info on showing up for class on the 11th. They *might* have another class at the end of the month. My instructor was one of the ones who was hired. I told him he was better off and show apply at Expressjet anyway.

That seems a little closer to what I've been hearing. I'll know on Monday for sure if those ATP guys are in the class or if by "hired," they're swimming in a pool.

777, you've got numerous guys that have "been there, done that" telling you one thing, but you're still clinging to something else. When/if you wind up in our position, I'd almost bet you'll change your mind. I still say that if you need a $7K primer for 121 ground school to pass, you don't belong there.

 

[stillageek]

Well if it makes it any better ATP CFI's don't pay anywhere near full price for the CRJ course.....closer to $2500 for the course.