FAA’s diversity push includes focus on hiring people with ‘severe intellectual’ and ‘psychiatric’ disabilities

[Kingairer]

That’s actually a great idea.

F4 Vietnam prequel would be great.

 

[MikeD]

F4 Vietnam prequel would be great.

Only one problem with that.

VF-51 “Screaming Eagles” was never on the USS Oriskany. Not as an F-8 Crusader squadron. It was on the USS Bon Homme Richard and USS Ticonderoga in F-8s during the first half of the Vietnam air war. Essex Class aircraft carriers never operated F-4 Phantoms as their fighters, as those were too large for them, so they operated F-8 Crusaders, all the way until March 1976 when Oriskany retired as the last combat Essex carrier.

As an F-4 Phantom squadron after 1970, VF-51 was on the USS Coral Sea with its sister squadron VF-111 “Sundowners”

So, there’s going to be this continuity and factual error problem to somehow correct in any prequel…….

 

[Kingairer]

Only one problem with that.

VF-51 “Screaming Eagles” was never on the USS Oriskany. Not as an F-8 Crusader squadron. It was on the USS Bon Homme Richard and USS Ticonderoga in F-8s during the first half of the Vietnam air war. Essex Class aircraft carriers never operated F-4 Phantoms as their fighters, as those were too large for them, so they operated F-8 Crusaders, all the way until March 1976 when Oriskany retired as the last combat Essex carrier.

As an F-4 Phantom squadron after 1970, VF-51 was on the USS Coral Sea with its sister squadron VF-111 “Sundowners”

So, there’s going to be this continuity and factual error problem to somehow correct in any prequel…….

Dude, did you forget this highly successful movie used an F5 and called it a Mig28? Call it a F3.5 or something. Just Make the movie!

 

[MikeD]

Dude, did you forget this highly successful movie used an F5 and called it a Mig28? Call it a F3.5 or something. Just Make the movie!

Ha! I was trying to overlook that one.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

Essex Class aircraft carriers never operated F-4 Phantoms as their fighters, as those were too large for them, so they operated F-8 Crusaders, all the way until March 1976 when Oriskany retired as the last combat Essex carrier.

It’s probably more accurate to say that McNamara didn’t want his new expensive Phantoms and Intruders operating off Essex carriers. He cited the safety record of newer carriers. While I see the size and weight issue published often, Whales were heavier and larger.

 

[knot4u]

Only one problem with that.

VF-51 “Screaming Eagles” was never on the USS Oriskany. Not as an F-8 Crusader squadron. It was on the USS Bon Homme Richard and USS Ticonderoga in F-8s during the first half of the Vietnam air war. Essex Class aircraft carriers never operated F-4 Phantoms as their fighters, as those were too large for them, so they operated F-8 Crusaders, all the way until March 1976 when Oriskany retired as the last combat Essex carrier.

As an F-4 Phantom squadron after 1970, VF-51 was on the USS Coral Sea with its sister squadron VF-111 “Sundowners”

So, there’s going to be this continuity and factual error problem to somehow correct in any prequel…….

I don't know, it's just seems like a plausible idea for the third movie in the Top Gun series and I doubt many would scrutinize the historical inaccuracy, they've taken certain creative license with the two previous films. It seems as if there is an audience for prequels and films that depict made up stories. Top Gun is not accurate nor historic, if it's make believe why can't the F-4s fly off the Oriskany? I suppose the only question that remains is what was Mavericks dads call sign?

 

[Pilot Fighter]

I don't know, it's just seems like a plausible idea for the third movie in the Top Gun series and I doubt many would scrutinize the historical inaccuracy, they've taken certain creative license with the two previous films. It seems as if there is an audience for prequels and films that depict made up stories. Top Gun is not accurate nor historic, if it's make believe why can't the F-4s fly off the Oriskany? I suppose the only question that remains is what was Mavericks dads call sign?

Fiction, maybe the Oriskany was on Yankee Station and F-4’s had to break the rules and come aboard for a special mission.

Someplace out there is an article on 27-Charlie’s that quote McNamara. He makes a safety point and says the Essex class are too small for the Intruders and Phantoms when making the point that the newer carriers are safer for all aircraft. I don’t think there is a technical reason they couldn’t trap or shoot.

 

[MikeD]

It’s probably more accurate to say that McNamara didn’t want his new expensive Phantoms and Intruders operating off Essex carriers. He cited the safety record of newer carriers. While I see the size and weight issue published often, Whales were heavier and larger.

This is true. The only thing I can think of was what was the numbers of a Whale squadron (Det?) onboard, versus what would be, what, two 12 plane fighter squadrons? Overall deck/hangar space potentially also?

 

[MikeD]

Fiction, maybe the Oriskany was on Yankee Station and F-4’s had to break the rules and come aboard for a special mission.

Someplace out there is an article on 27-Charlie’s that quote McNamara. He makes a safety point and says the Essex class are too small for the Intruders and Phantoms when making the point that the newer carriers are safer for all aircraft. I don’t think there is a technical reason they couldn’t trap or shoot.

Did you know the Reagan Admin and SECNAV Lehman were wanting to reactivate Oriskany in the early 1980s as a Marine Air Wing aircraft carrier, with A-4 Skyhawk VMA squadrons for day light attack ops? This would’ve been a heavier carrier to bring more punch than an LPH or LHA that only had a Det of AV-8A Harriers.

Eventually turned down due to material condition and cost to reactivate, but was being considered along with the Iowa class BB reactivation. It’s interesting reading. Here:

http://archive.gao.gov/f0102/115403.pdf

 

[Pilot Fighter]

This is true. The only thing I can think of was what was the numbers of a Whale squadron (Det?) onboard, versus what would be, what, two 12 plane fighter squadrons? Overall deck/hangar space potentially also?

That makes sense. I’m now on a mission to find the article or source. The McNamara quote was kinda odd, it mentioned safety and the size of the old boats. He might have been making two distinct points, the better safety record on the bigger newer boats and the logistics issues on a small boats.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

Did you know the Reagan Admin and SECNAV Lehman were wanting to reactivate Oriskany in the early 1980s as a Marine Air Wing aircraft carrier, with A-4 Skyhawk VMA squadrons for day light attack ops? This would’ve been a heavier carrier to bring more punch than an LPH or LHA that only had a Det of AV-8A Harriers.

Eventually turned down due to material condition and cost to reactivate, but was being considered along with the Iowa class BB reactivation. It’s interesting reading. Here:

http://archive.gao.gov/f0102/115403.pdf

That’s interesting! I was not aware. .

 

[MikeD]

That’s interesting! I was not aware. .

Here’s some more for trivia for you. Had Oriskany been reactivated, this would’ve been the first time since the very early 1960s that Marine A-4s would’ve operated from an aircraft carrier. As during the entirety of the Vietnam air war, A-4s and EF-10Bs were the only USMC tactical aircraft to never operate from an aircraft carrier air wing, they were land based only. Marine F-4s, A-6s, and near the end of Linebacker even EA-6As and RF-4Bs, were assigned to CVWs on various cruises.

 

[MikeD]

That’s interesting! I was not aware. .

And for one last one. The A-4 Skyhawk holds the distinction of having fought in 4 wars.

 

[Pilot Fighter]

And for one last one. The A-4 Skyhawk holds the distinction of having fought in 4 wars.

The F-4 made at least 5 wars. Vietnam, War of Attrition, Iran-Iran, Yom Kippur, Gulf. The Mig-21 probably made ten or fifteen wars.

 

[MikeD]

The F-4 made at least 5 wars. Vietnam, War of Attrition, Iran-Iran, Yom Kippur, Gulf. The Mig-21 probably made ten or fifteen wars.

Very true, could probably add Turkey skirmishes with the Greece and northern Iraq into that too,

 

[knot4u]

B-25s once flew off a carrier and bombed Japan in real life, perhaps that sort of subterfuge can be written into this piece of fiction.

 

[Lawman]

That makes sense. I’m now on a mission to find the article or source. The McNamara quote was kinda odd, it mentioned safety and the size of the old boats. He might have been making two distinct points, the better safety record on the bigger newer boats and the logistics issues on a small boats.

Would the Whale presence specific to the Essex have been just to maintain a sole role Nuclear strike capability? I don’t know what the timeline was from A6 introduction in the Fleet to full assumption of the capability as the Nuclear option. I know the A7 was nuclear capable, but same thing not sure when exactly from its inception it assumed that capability.

I remember them talking about how Tomcats didn’t operate from the Midway for the same weight and size issue, which given the fact their wasn’t a gap in capes between going from 4/7 to the Hornet I don’t see that being an issue. And the A7s were definitely Nuke capable by the that time.


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[MikeD]

Would the Whale presence specific to the Essex have been just to maintain a sole role Nuclear strike capability? I don’t know what the timeline was from A6 introduction in the Fleet to full assumption of the capability as the Nuclear option. I know the A7 was nuclear capable, but same thing not sure when exactly from its inception it assumed that capability.

I remember them talking about how Tomcats didn’t operate from the Midway for the same weight and size issue, which given the fact their wasn’t a gap in capes between going from 4/7 to the Hornet I don’t see that being an issue. And the A7s were definitely Nuke capable by the that time.


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By the late 1960s most of the Whales were either tankers, or combo ECM/tankers in the VAH squadrons, from what I’ve been told.

 

[Lawman]

By the late 1960s most of the Whales were either tankers, or combo ECM/tankers in the VAH squadrons, from what I’ve been told.

That’s what I mean though. Like get VAH-whoever… you and this other squadron on this other coast are now the sole maintaining Nuclear Whales… and guess what boats your assigned Airwings go to… Doesn’t have to be across the squadron but you need X crews to be qual’d. This is a temporary fix.

Plus that would give them the leverage to not put A6 on board since it could dual hat as the Airwings tanker asset 99 days out of 100.


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[knot4u]

I recall how happy I was to see Bearcats in Devotion. They were just out farting around training before they got deployed. That movie was based on a true story, did they actually buzz their houses in Bearcats? I don't know, but the timeline makes sense, and that's all it really takes for a script, especially a fictional one. Suspend your disbelief for 100 minutes, it's a movie. Not to mention anything the military can do to help recruiting at this point, aviation or not, is badly needed.