Industry Turn

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

@Dacuj honest question, what are your updated feelings on that Swayne dude for leaving Envoy? You said in a previous thread you and your folks had a discussion about him. So what’s the final thoughts? The dude is holding widebody right now, sooner than he would be at AA. As in, he couldn’t be a 767/330/777/787 pilot right now at AA with his seniority. And he could hold narrowbody CA. Which sounds like is almost happening at AA, maybe not quiet yet.


So how is he worse off for making the move from Envoy to United?

 

[///AMG]

I feel like you fall into the first part. Blowing smoke up people's butts definitely falls under "saying the right things" in a recruiting role.

We have entered a point where anyone that wants to go to AA will likely get there quicker via a FFD carrier rather than a WO carrier. Airlines don't like poaching from their own feed. We have seen this with CJO limits placed on WO carriers from AA and Delta.

Yeah, friend of mine spent 4+ years trying to "flow" from Piedmont to AA, including ~3 years there in the left seat. Lots of "oh yeah, we are reaching out to make that happen" emails from management, and no actual progress. So he left and has been at UAL for the last couple years, about to upgrade now.

 

[Dacuj]

@Dacuj honest question, what are your updated feelings on that Swayne dude for leaving Envoy? You said in a previous thread you and your folks had a discussion about him. So what’s the final thoughts? The dude is holding widebody right now, sooner than he would be at AA. As in, he couldn’t be a 767/330/777/787 pilot right now at AA with his seniority. And he could hold narrowbody CA. Which sounds like is almost happening at AA, maybe not quiet yet.


So how is he worse off for making the move from Envoy to United?

For starters, Swayne wouldn't be flying a 76 or 330 at AA as they no longer have either frame. And for the first part of your question, Swayne made a huge mistake in leaving AA. That's my opinion and many others I know as well. I think he capitalized on what Envoy so graciously allowed him to do in an assist to the recruiting team. You could go as far as the phrase, "stabbed in the back" if you cared to utilize the term. It describes what I think he did in his unique situation. Sure, he's flying a widebody, but his seniority would have moved up so much more quickly at AA when you compare apples to apples with the retirements of both carriers. We all know this is an unprecedented time in airline aviation. Your best and safest bet has always been Envoy. PSA and Piedmont to a "much" lesser degree. They are wholly owned sure, but they were brought over with the merger in that way. If you want a further opinion on that, I think that with the staffing troubles they are having, along with the outdated aircraft they fly, they might find themselves shuttered in the future. Again, just my opinion so take it for you think it's worth.

 

[CFIT99]

For starters, Swayne wouldn't be flying a 76 or 330 at AA as they no longer have either frame. And for the first part of your question, Swayne made a huge mistake in leaving AA. That's my opinion and many others I know as well. I think he capitalized on what Envoy so graciously allowed him to do in an assist to the recruiting team. You could go as far as the phrase, "stabbed in the back" if you cared to utilize the term. It describes what I think he did in his unique situation. Sure, he's flying a widebody, but his seniority would have moved up so much more quickly at AA when you compare apples to apples with the retirements of both carriers. We all know this is an unprecedented time in airline aviation. Your best and safest bet has always been Envoy. PSA and Piedmont to a "much" lesser degree. They are wholly owned sure, but they were brought over with the merger in that way. If you want a further opinion on that, I think that with the staffing troubles they are having, along with the outdated aircraft they fly, they might find themselves shuttered in the future. Again, just my opinion so take it for you think it's worth.

Holy •ing •....

If you want a further opinion on that, I think that with the staffing troubles they are having, along with the outdated aircraft they fly, they might find themselves shuttered in the future

HOLY F**CKING •...


epic troll post bro

 

[derg]

Every time I fly over Arizona and see KTYL on my nav display, I’m reminded this is Derg’s home.

But… it’s not!

 

[Maurus]

Your best and safest bet has always been Envoy. PSA and Piedmont to a "much" lesser degree. They are wholly owned sure, but they were brought over with the merger in that way. If you want a further opinion on that, I think that with the staffing troubles they are having, along with the outdated aircraft they fly, they might find themselves shuttered in the future. Again, just my opinion so take it for you think it's worth.

Nah, I happily left PSA and now have well over 5000 pilots behind me at my current shop. Had I waited to flow I would have finally gotten to AA earlier this year. I would still be on first year pay with a good 4000+ pilots hired ahead of me already. Every year of waiting to flow is at least 2000 seniority numbers lost.

I'm not saying people shouldn't go to AA or that seniority isn't moving faster today. I'm saying that being forced to wait in long line for AA is a big mistake. PSA has 1700 pilots with a 10 pilots per month flow and AA hiring restrictions outside of flow. Meanwhile pilots are getting picked up at United and Delta shortly after upgrade. If the goal is AA I would advise to stay away from AA carriers. Too many restrictions right now.

 

[CFIT99]

Nah, I happily left PSA and now have well over 5000 pilots behind me at my current shop. Had I waited to flow I would have finally gotten to AA earlier this year. I would still be on first year pay with a good 4000+ pilots hired ahead of me already. Every year of waiting to flow is at least 2000 seniority numbers lost.

I'm not saying people shouldn't go to AA or that seniority isn't moving faster today. I'm saying that being forced to wait in long line for AA is a big mistake. PSA has 1700 pilots with a 10 pilots per month flow and AA hiring restrictions outside of flow. Meanwhile pilots are getting picked up at United and Delta shortly after upgrade. If the goal is AA I would advise to stay away from AA carriers. Too many restrictions right now.

agreed, if AA is you final destination...don't go to a wholly owned...

Go to any other regional or ULLC and get picked up years earlier.

 

[poser765]

When you are invited to interview for a recruiting position, it's easy to separate the wheat from the chaff. I've sat in on many interviews with line pilots who applied for recruiting positions and it's blatantly obvious those that are just "saying the right things" vs those who you can tell who are really excited about bringing in the best and the brightest of the next generation. I've nixed more than one interviewee in the past. One in particular comes to mind, a fellow who was totally against the cadet program. He thought it was a better fit to find someone who had flown 135, corporate or 91 before considering a highly qualified 1500 hour, aviation UNIVERSITY EDUCATED cadet. I think we've proven those hires were some of the best Envoy has ever seen. All that to say, a true airline recruiter is hard to find. The guys and gals who love the nuts and bolts of the process and are willing to adapt and change with the times.

Point of fact. If you’re talking about AA recruiters they are clearly not looking for the best and brightest. They hired my dumb ass.

 

[JustinS]

Ok I’ll bite on the obvious troll job.

For starters, Swayne wouldn't be flying a 76 or 330 at AA as they no longer have either frame.

Thanks for wasting everyone’s time with that obvious statement.

And for the first part of your question, Swayne made a huge mistake in leaving AA.

Sure, he's flying a widebody, but his seniority would have moved up so much more quickly at AA when you compare apples to apples with the retirements of both carriers.

Not true. He’d still be at Envoy hoping for a spot at American while thousands of pilots getting hired being senior to him at American. He’d be better off getting hired at American outside of the flow or going to another major sooner than waiting on a flow.

That's my opinion and many others I know as well. I think he capitalized on what Envoy so graciously allowed him to do in an assist to the recruiting team. You could go as far as the phrase, "stabbed in the back" if you cared to utilize the term. It describes what I think he did in his unique situation.

What if his dream was United? That’s highly likely. I think everyone does what’s best for them and their family and there should be no ill will. He volunteered his time and energy being not only a recruiter for Envoy but an ambassador for Envoy through his YouTube channel. I don’t think Swayne ever said anything publicly bad about Envoy. He gave up his time energy and services as a pilot to better the company leaving it better than he found it. Good for him. Calling him a backstabber is myopic and disingenuous. Also if you’re as much of a mouthpiece for Envoy as Swayne was then I’d think you would’ve been friends with him rather than talking bad about him behind his back on a public forum.

We all know this is an unprecedented time in airline aviation. Your best and safest bet has always been Envoy. PSA and Piedmont to a "much" lesser degree. They are wholly owned sure, but they were brought over with the merger in that way. Again, just my opinion so take it for you think it's worth.

You think American is the safest bet when the largest part of their revenue is credit card memberships, has massive debt, has made relatively small profits, and Delta and United represented 90% of total industry profit, and 98% of industry revenue growth? What’s American doing about taking market share? Not a whole lot when you look at United and Delta.

If you want a further opinion on that, I think that with the staffing troubles they are having, along with the outdated aircraft they fly, they might find themselves shuttered in the future.

You mean the same staffing problems American is having? Outdated aircraft? Have you not seen their order books.

 

[Kingairer]

Nah, I happily left PSA and now have well over 5000 pilots behind me at my current shop. Had I waited to flow I would have finally gotten to AA earlier this year. I would still be on first year pay with a good 4000+ pilots hired ahead of me already. Every year of waiting to flow is at least 2000 seniority numbers lost.

I'm not saying people shouldn't go to AA or that seniority isn't moving faster today. I'm saying that being forced to wait in long line for AA is a big mistake. PSA has 1700 pilots with a 10 pilots per month flow and AA hiring restrictions outside of flow. Meanwhile pilots are getting picked up at United and Delta shortly after upgrade. If the goal is AA I would advise to stay away from AA carriers. Too many restrictions right now.

I don’t think anyone should waste a moment thinking what this brain dead company bot thinks.

 

[Ian_J]

For starters, Swayne wouldn't be flying a 76 or 330 at AA as they no longer have either frame. And for the first part of your question, Swayne made a huge mistake in leaving AA. That's my opinion and many others I know as well. I think he capitalized on what Envoy so graciously allowed him to do in an assist to the recruiting team. You could go as far as the phrase, "stabbed in the back" if you cared to utilize the term. It describes what I think he did in his unique situation. Sure, he's flying a widebody, but his seniority would have moved up so much more quickly at AA when you compare apples to apples with the retirements of both carriers. We all know this is an unprecedented time in airline aviation. Your best and safest bet has always been Envoy. PSA and Piedmont to a "much" lesser degree. They are wholly owned sure, but they were brought over with the merger in that way. If you want a further opinion on that, I think that with the staffing troubles they are having, along with the outdated aircraft they fly, they might find themselves shuttered in the future. Again, just my opinion so take it for you think it's worth.

And @Cherokee_Cruiser …

Dude has 3700 people under him now and is 21% in base as a 757/767 FO.

He will retire as the number 4 pilot in the company.

I’d say he’s doing alright.

 

[CFIT99]

And @Cherokee_Cruiser …

Dude has 3700 people under him now and is 21% in base as a 757/767 FO.

He will retire as the number 4 pilot in the company.

I’d say he’s doing alright.

BUT...if he went to Envoy he could have been...wait for it...still at Envoy because he waited for the flow....

 

[mwflyer]

For starters, Swayne wouldn't be flying a 76 or 330 at AA as they no longer have either frame. And for the first part of your question, Swayne made a huge mistake in leaving AA. That's my opinion and many others I know as well. I think he capitalized on what Envoy so graciously allowed him to do in an assist to the recruiting team. You could go as far as the phrase, "stabbed in the back" if you cared to utilize the term. It describes what I think he did in his unique situation. Sure, he's flying a widebody, but his seniority would have moved up so much more quickly at AA when you compare apples to apples with the retirements of both carriers. We all know this is an unprecedented time in airline aviation. Your best and safest bet has always been Envoy. PSA and Piedmont to a "much" lesser degree. They are wholly owned sure, but they were brought over with the merger in that way. If you want a further opinion on that, I think that with the staffing troubles they are having, along with the outdated aircraft they fly, they might find themselves shuttered in the future. Again, just my opinion so take it for you think it's worth.

Nice switch up. In a post right after he jumped to United, you insinuated that there were skeleton’s in his closet and that AA was happy to see him go. At least keep your lie’s straight.

 

[Constellation]

As I mentioned years ago a prior time @Dacuj posted his drivel, I was an instructor to quite a few AA Cadet Academy students at one of their partner schools.

Years later and not a single one of them is at American Airlines and all of my prior students in that program are now in the interview pipeline at Delta and United or are already there. A handful of them were some of my best students and overall outstanding individuals, too.

When COVID broke out, AA essentially ceased all contact with them during the pandemic. I understand that was a unique and difficult time, but essentially ghosting your cadets after they've invested significant time and effort into representing your organization didn't sit well with a lot them.

When hiring resumed after COVID, Envoy was the only regional requiring their cadets to sign a ridiculous 2 year non-compete clause, leaving many of their cadets with a difficult decision during one of the most prolific hiring environments in decades.

Where other airline cadet programs are offering guaranteed positions at a major carrier (SW, JB, Frontier, etc.), AA Cadets now only get a guaranteed interview at an AA regional after spending $100,000 on their training.

If you want actually want to end up at American Airlines, the AA Cadet Academy is quite possibly the slowest and most expensive way to get there.

 

[derg]

If you want to get to AA fast, go to Endeavor.

 

[Avalon781ML]

If you want to get to AA fast, go to Endeavor.

Hell… if you want to go to any major/legacy go to any place except Envoy… if Dacuj is an example of the people Envoys C suite brings into management roles… direct or otherwise… I wouldn’t touch them with a ten foot pole.

 

[Skåning]

If you guys are gonna feed the troll, at least be creative about it. This is amateur hour

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

For starters, Swayne wouldn't be flying a 76 or 330 at AA as they no longer have either frame.

So less widebodies at AA vs UA for its pilots?

And for the first part of your question, Swayne made a huge mistake in leaving AA. That's my opinion and many others I know as well. I think he capitalized on what Envoy so graciously allowed him to do in an assist to the recruiting team. You could go as far as the phrase, "stabbed in the back" if you cared to utilize the term. It describes what I think he did in his unique situation.

What do you mean he stabbed you or your team in the back? How did that phone call go?


*ring ring*

"Swayne's leaving for United."

"That disloyal fool ass, b*tch made punk! How dare he leave for a legacy airline now and take now, what we can offer him 4 yrs in the future!"

Sure, he's flying a widebody, but his seniority would have moved up so much more quickly at AA when you compare apples to apples with the retirements of both carriers.

The whole point of seniority is to exercise it to hold what you want. Fact remains, he's widebody right off the bat on the 767 at UA. At AA, he would have been 737 or A320. Nothing against those airplanes, I've flown both and like domestic. But you're talking about seniority and moving quickly at AA, but who cares if you can't hold what you want right now?

So to recap, he went to a legacy airline (United) sooner than he would have flowed to AA, and then he held a widebody sooner (today) than he would have at that future AA class date a couple years in the future. Do I have that right?

We all know this is an unprecedented time in airline aviation. Your best and safest bet has always been Envoy. PSA and Piedmont to a "much" lesser degree. They are wholly owned sure, but they were brought over with the merger in that way. If you want a further opinion on that, I think that with the staffing troubles they are having, along with the outdated aircraft they fly, they might find themselves shuttered in the future. Again, just my opinion so take it for you think it's worth.

Wait wait, so one wholly owned is better than two other wholly owned because of "hired, not acquired?"

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

But… it’s not!

Is Arizona not your home? Don't pull that Tulare crap. You ain't no Californian anymore

Taylor? More like Traiiiiitor












(I'm just teasin)

 

[derg]

So less widebodies at AA vs UA for its pilots?








What do you mean he stabbed you or your team in the back? How did that phone call go?


*ring ring*

"Swayne's leaving for United."

"That disloyal fool ass, b*tch made punk! How dare he leave for a legacy airline now and take now, what we can offer him 4 yrs in the future!"

The whole point of seniority is to exercise it to hold what you want. Fact remains, he's widebody right off the bat on the 767 at UA. At AA, he would have been 737 or A320. Nothing against those airplanes, I've flown both and like domestic. But you're talking about seniority and moving quickly at AA, but who cares if you can't hold what you want right now?

So to recap, he went to a legacy airline (United) sooner than he would have flowed to AA, and then he held a widebody sooner (today) than he would have at that future AA class date a couple years in the future. Do I have that right?




Wait wait, so one wholly owned is better than two other wholly owned because of "hired, not acquired?"

Chnaces are that no one knew who the heck he was.

Remember "Pilot Pete" at Delta? About 12 people knew who he was.