2 people safely eject from jet that later crashed during Thunder Over Michigan air show 8/13/2023

As I said, they were very. very lucky. Speed, Bank angle, altitude all appears to be outside of the KM-1 envelope. Death was less than 2sec away.
 
What gets me is why this observer in the back seat is giving a public interview in the first place. This is extremely unusual in any accident where the investigation is not yet complete, to have principal members involved in the accident, giving out full public interviews. And the backseater, being a USAF guy, would know this. Which makes it even more curious to me.
 
MikeD said:
What gets me is why this observer in the back seat is giving a public interview in the first place. This is extremely unusual in any accident where the investigation is not yet complete, to have principal members involved in the accident, giving out full public interviews. And the backseater, being a USAF guy, would know this. Which makes it even more curious to me.
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I will take it a step further.

Why was a back seater inside of a single pilot experimental jet during an airshow routine? There is a lot wrong with this whole situation, long before the engine rolled back to idle...
 
Inverted said:
I will take it a step further.

Why was a back seater inside of a single pilot experimental jet during an airshow routine? There is a lot wrong with this whole situation, long before the engine rolled back to idle...
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That question came up earlier in the thread I think. Both seats need to be occupied to activate the KM-1 system, I'm not 100% sure tho.

Good aerial view of the crash site


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ8KI869KmM
 
Case in point for my above comment on giving public interviews before the investigation is complete. Regardless of how anyone here thinks about the timing of the ejection decision, this has to be looked at from what a lawyer and the FAA would look at this as it comes to how a premature public statement will be taken. The part where he queries the pilot about apartments n the ground, is vague on the response, and pulls the handles; this statement he gave opens him up to any lawyer twisting that into negligence for property damage and potential bodily harm to those on the ground, as well as opens the FAA up to the catch-all clause of theirs: 14 CFR 91.13, Careless and Reckless operation. DO NOT give public interviews while the investigation is in progress. The chances of you implicating yourself for something is high, as the video on the internet never disappears. If EVER there was a time to follow the mantra of “Never Miss an Opportunity to Know When to Shut the F Up”, it’s now.

And Mr Perdue who is giving the interview on his youtube channel, as a former USAF fighter pilot himself apparently, should also know this, and should’ve at least advised this guy against doing public interviews. I don’t know Mr Perdue, but I hope he’s not the fighter pilot version of Juan Cornholio and Dan Gryder.
 
Inverted said:
Why was a back seater inside of a single pilot experimental jet during an airshow routine? There is a lot wrong with this whole situation, long before the engine rolled back to idle...
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I do not think it is single pilot. The radio can only be operated from the back seat.

Giving an interview is an odd choice, but he was getting a lot of crap from people about initiating the ejection when I do think he made the right choice. I guess his ego could not handle being publicly criticized when he was right.

Alex.
 
CK said:
I do not think it is single pilot. The radio can only be operated from the back seat.

Giving an interview is an odd choice, but he was getting a lot of crap from people about initiating the ejection when I do think he made the right choice. I guess his ego could not handle being publicly criticized when he was right.

Alex.
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Of course, the decision analysis for the ejection will of course be analyzed and may be criticized to have been fully, partially, or not correct. I doubt the latter, but there will be critical analysis of the decision making, the considerations taken, and the CRM utilized. All fair assessments.
 
So the California fighter jet into a restaurant was a civvie. Not even a military jet. So many people dead cause some civvie couldn’t fly a fighter jet. Low experience.

And this MI bail out and send a fuel bomb hurtling to the ground with no regard.


Sorry, but civvies flying fighter jets should be banned over ANY populated airspace. Go do it in an isolated area only.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
So the California fighter jet into a restaurant was a civvie. Not even a military jet. So many people dead cause some civvie couldn’t fly a fighter jet. Low experience.

And this MI bail out and send a fuel bomb hurtling to the ground with no regard.


Sorry, but civvies flying fighter jets should be banned over ANY populated airspace. Go do it in an isolated area only.
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You and Todd must be soulmates. What happened to him, was he voted off the island?
 
MikeD said:
Case in point for my above comment on giving public interviews before the investigation is complete. Regardless of how anyone here thinks about the timing of the ejection decision, this has to be looked at from what a lawyer and the FAA would look at this as it comes to how a premature public statement will be taken. The part where he queries the pilot about apartments n the ground, is vague on the response, and pulls the handles; this statement he gave opens him up to any lawyer twisting that into negligence for property damage and potential bodily harm to those on the ground, as well as opens the FAA up to the catch-all clause of theirs: 14 CFR 91.13, Careless and Reckless operation. DO NOT give public interviews while the investigation is in progress. The chances of you implicating yourself for something is high, as the video on the internet never disappears. If EVER there was a time to follow the mantra of “Never Miss an Opportunity to Know When to Shut the F Up”, it’s now.

And Mr Perdue who is giving the interview on his youtube channel, as a former USAF fighter pilot himself apparently, should also know this, and should’ve at least advised this guy against doing public interviews. I don’t know Mr Perdue, but I hope he’s not the fighter pilot version of Juan Cornholio and Dan Gryder.
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Man, I had it burned into me from pretty early in my career that when in doubt keep your mouth shut about work stuff on media social or otherwise….I guess the temptation to present evidence in the court of public opinion instead of the NTSB investigation board was just too strong….
 
Roger Roger said:
Man, I had it burned into me from pretty early in my career that when in doubt keep your mouth shut about work stuff on media social or otherwise….I guess the temptation to present evidence in the court of public opinion instead of the NTSB investigation board was just too strong….
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And that burned-in advice, is sage advice that holds true as much today, as it has in the past. I agree…and am also befuddled….as to what/why the temptation to do something as dumb as this. Because of some criticism from rando people on the internet that he was getting? So what? Wait until the investigation is complete. He’s dug himself a hole now, and that dude Perdue whose YouTube channel it is, helped him dig. Total failed judgement by both of these cats who should damn well know better. It’s burned into us during safety briefs in the USAF. So they certainly knew.
 
You have the right to remain silent. If you give up your right to remain silent, everything you say can and will be used against you in the court of public opinion.
 
MikeD said:
The jet indeed had both an engine issue before this; as well as a canopy piece that came off during, I believe, sun n fun.

It’s already apparent in the video that the jet is low on energy, with the wings forward; that while the engine is running, it doesn’t appear to be anywhere near mil power, and the jet is already low altitude and in a descending bank. There is likely little time until the jet will be outside its safe seat envelope. Even for seats that are rated as “zero-zero”, which these ones wouldn’t be, that only works on the ground anyway.

Am still curious what the FAAs concerns are with this accident, if any. This was as close as it could come to having plowed into an apartment complex without actually doing so. Am curious how this will affect LOAs for jet warbirds.

Very lucky, as there is really no way for the crew to even point the aircraft to avoid places on the ground or have the jet impact somewhere specific post-ejection. That’s due to the fact that as soon as ejection occurs, the loss of weight from the exiting pilots, the seats, and the canopies cause both a weight loss and CG shift that will change the aircraft’s flight path vector anyway. Very lucky.
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As a military aviator with experience in the A-10 and F-117, you're saying you wouldn't trust a Russian ejection seat? :)
 
derg said:
As a military aviator with experience in the A-10 and F-117, you're saying you wouldn't trust a Russian ejection seat? :)
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The older ejection seats such as this one, combined with unknown maintenance and upkeep, would make me leery.
 
I wouldn't trust a western seat from that generation of fighter aircraft either. The things those guys working for ATAC and Draken ride on, no chance (though IRC there was a successful Draken A-4 ejection in Nellis a few years back, and maybe an ATAC one out in HI in a similar timeframe). That isn't a slight against their maintainers. I imagine they do a good job, and are paid well to manage some very complex and aging survival systems. But they weren't very good to begin with, out of the box.
 
///AMG said:
I wouldn't trust a western seat from that generation of fighter aircraft either. The things those guys working for ATAC and Draken ride on, no chance (though IRC there was a successful Draken A-4 ejection in Nellis a few years back, and maybe an ATAC one out in HI in a similar timeframe). That isn't a slight against their maintainers. I imagine they do a good job, and are paid well to manage some very complex and aging survival systems. But they weren't very good to begin with, out of the box.
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Did the ATAC Kfir pilot at NFL attempt ejection after near flame out in the Wx?
 
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