Part 91 is a very different world. I operated/contracted on 4 different types at one point. It wasn't as hard as you're making it out to be but things just operate a little differently on that side of the world.
Challenger Truckee
- Thread starter Boris Badenov
- Start date
Space Monkey
Arbitrariness replaces reason with authority.
91 is Forest Gump and Dickens all at the same time.
"Never know what you're gonna get."
and...
"T'was the best of times. T'was the worst of times."
121 is McDonalds. Always know what you're gonna get. It's been served billions and billions of times. It's gonna be Brazillian beef marketed by an American cowboy.
135 is Dante's 9th Circle with an occasional angel thrown in to engender the dramatic contrast of positive space, provocation and audience engagment.
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T/O w/FSII
Well-Known Member
I’ll be honest, as I am a actual large cabin ultra long range part time part 91 contractor on the side of my 135 gig.
The answer is…zero. Zero company specific anything aside from how to submit a expense report. Zero FOM stuff. Jobs are hired on word of mouth usually or posted on the Facebook job boards by strangers or mutual friends and rarely is a resume passed along. Maybe I’ll fill out a experience summary for the insurance company and that’s about it. Usually one pilot is full time, and you will depend on that person to take care of the company specific stuff.
Generally I only ask the company if the airplane is locked, how do you want me to pay for gas (because I ain’t buying it on my card) and who arranges the logistics.
Call outs and flows and generally just copied form the big box type schools. Checklist are easy enough. Just read it.
Pay is day rate, either cash (rare) credit card (really rare) or you’ll submit a invoice to get a paper check or direct deposit some weeks later.
Space Monkey
Arbitrariness replaces reason with authority.
Concur. Mostly and usually. There are many exceptions. Some 91 ops put the best 121 ops to shame.
I've always said 91 has the best and worst jobs in aviation. Problem is there are ALOT of really bad 91 jobs and only a miniscule amount of really good. No regrets coming to the 121 side of the fence. I never felt comfortable flying 91. I'm a respectful person, I just don't do well kissing ass. And rich people don't impress me at all. If there's anything I miss it was the repo legs when I was flying with friends and could bring my spouse or parents along. My parents will never be able to ride along with me for the rest of my career and that sucks.
KLB
Well-Known Member
I've learned the trick to part 91 flying. Run your own account and/or be with a good management company.
Jimmy_Norton
Well-Known Member
That is pretty much where I am. The perk for me was going somewhere nice for a week and having somewhat of a vacation. That changed all of a sudden where I am working now. I got lots of frequent flier miles though.....
That helps, but it really comes down to the owner/principle. At the end of the day, they can make or break the QOL of the department.
BE19Pilot
Flying a Box
I'll tell you this...High density altitude, super-critical wing and a poorly executed circling maneuver added up to a bad day...Played around with it in the sim...Can be done safely, if you fly the maneuver correctly...I know a lot more, but given my position I cannot say anymore...Haven't really done any pilot "social media" in years, but was interested to see what was being said about the crash...Take care y'all...
BE19Pilot
Flying a Box
Contract pilots are all operating under Part 91. VERY few 135 contractors out there, if any that I have ever met in the last 6 1/2-years. Typically, the insurance carrier that's underwriting them calls the shots on what's required in the way of training and currency. I'll also say that you can make a lot $$$ doing it...A Gulfstream 650 gear slinger makes on average $2500.00/day and UP...( not a typo ). Cheers!
BE19Pilot
Flying a Box
Think "OEM" training provided by the usual suspects...
BE19Pilot
Flying a Box
Me too...one night flying a SAAB 340 IAD-SHD ( "Blue Ridge" mountains...)
BE19Pilot
Flying a Box
Except, the CL-600 series doesn't have spoilerons...And, it's low speed handling characteristics are less than optimum ( control feel and harmonization ). However, I agree that a circling approach is manageable and safe if flown correctly, respecting both pilot and aircraft limitations along with airport and weather...I've done circles ( "for real" ) in three different turboprops ( 121 ) and in the CL-604/605 ( 91 ) and the Challenger is the most demanding of staying ahead of the airplane...The folks that don't typically screw it up in some form or another...VERY unfortunate that an experienced crew didn't execute this maneuver correctly ( The ground track tells anyone with an understanding the story ). You're observation about TEB and the Lear are spot on I'd say.
These circles are are only as difficult as pilots make them. With the number one issue that I’ve seen, of pilots wanting to make them look like the same sight picture as a normal traffic pattern, which they aren’t. Being lower of an altitude AGL in most cases than a normal pattern, sometimes significantly, and trying to make the circling approach look like the normal traffic pattern results in a pattern position too close to the airport, with a resultant base-to-final overshoot that crews often try to salvage by overbank rather than proceeding straight-through and trying it again, or going missed if that’s not possible. The circling maneuver is going to look like you’re too low altitude-wise if you’re doing it right, but following the circling MDA and descending at a proper point in the pattern where you’d normally be at that altitude AGL, while remaining within your circling distance for your category, will all keep you within the TERPS protected area no matter how low the circling sight picture to the runway looks like. I see too many pilots that don’t seem to trust those facts. It’s why I enjoy teaching circling maneuvers at an airport from an approach, and the different circling options available and what they would look like, any circling restrictions permitting.
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KLB
Well-Known Member
Pilots can be their own worst enemy sometimes. I worked at setting a really good tone with my clients. My management company has an FOM mirrors the GOM with much of it not regulatory in nature for part 91. For instance, the FOM lays out the same exact duty and rest as the GOM. As the lead pilot, I can waive the policy when "needed". But I've set precedent with my clients that the policy is there for a reason and it is safest to abide by it. I (personally) added a restriction that my plane cannot land on a runway less than a 5000ft without consulting with the chief pilot. The rule was 4500ft or less with kead pilot approval. But it didn't make any sense that I (as lead) could just waive it without talking to anyone.
As a Part 91 pilot where anything pretty much goes that's within the FAR's, you have to be responsible for setting barriers. My bosses know duty, rest, and max flying in a day to calculate for themselves before I have to intervene at this point.
Space Monkey
Arbitrariness replaces reason with authority.
You're not wrong at all. It's just that what you are describing is stuff we're supposed to teach-to-proficiency to primary flight students.
It really seems there's some kind of cultural/operational disconnect between flying the airplane and flying the jet. IF, in fact, the primary students adequately internalized the adequate skill set and instincts incumbent upon a private pilot candidate, it's almost as if when those folk jump into the shiny T-fans, they forget it's STILL JUST AN AIRPLANE.
Your least skilled pre-jet pilots never had the chance to "play" in airplanes. Your least skilled jet pilots never had the chance to "play" in pistons or to "play" in jets. Play is how we learn. You know, we mammals. Don't believe me? Go watch a kitten "play" how to freaking hunt.
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NovemberEcho
Dergs favorite member
is there a story behind this one?
CFI A&P
Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
Details are still coming into the newsroom, but it appears the fella that ridiculed the crew in the Truckee crash took off out of Boca today in a Phenom with the gear pins still installed.