Challenger Truckee

[Kingairer]

Anyone know the story on why they weren’t able to do the approach that aligned with the runway?
and did he say circle for runway “length”? Or was it as depicted lights??

 

[Boris Badenov]

That said, this wasn't technically a circling approach since they were cleared for the visual approach, no?

Yes, agreed. I think they were legal to do what they were doing (until they broke all sorts of rules by crashing), but the fact that the exact same maneuver would be prohibited if they had been cleared for an instrument circling maneuver does give one an idea of the characteristics of the aircraft in the scenario.

 

[Jimmy_Norton]

Is it against the rules to crash an airplane? Asking for a friend.

 

[fholbert]

That said, this wasn't technically a circling approach since they were cleared for the visual approach, no?

They were cleared for the RNAV 20, not the visual approach. In addition the aircraft checked in LUMMO inbound saying he needed to circle to RWY 11.

 

[Beep]

Why did 5TR need runway 11 for the lights? Are we talking runway lights?

I heard length, not lights, but I could be mistaken.

 

[fholbert]

I heard length, not lights, but I could be mistaken.

Pretty sure you are correct. When I listen to it again I hear lights but length makes sense.

 

[amichael]

They were cleared for the RNAV 20, not the visual approach. In addition the aircraft checked in LUMMO inbound saying he needed to circle to RWY 11.

I think you're right.

We had this conundrum frequently with places like ASE, where despite the final approach segment being more or less straight in, its a circling approach. I would refuse any clearance for any part of the approach so we only made it in maybe half the time.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

We're only taught to circle at JFK when we see the smokestacks and start the timer.

 

[mikecweb]

Are there aviation FB groups that aren’t? I guess @ChasenSFO mismatch group. That one was cool.

I might still be a member of one or two. Haven't been on them for years. I'd say the only thing even remotely keeping me in facebook groups are the once very specifically dedicated to the types of boat i have or want.

 

[mikecweb]

We're only taught to circle at JFK when we see the smokestacks and start the timer.

Never change.

 

[mikecweb]

Better than the mess I saw screenshotted from PJP on Facebook….

Saw this on the gram. I see "Phoenix" is probably up to his usual •.

 

[Space Monkey]

Dude. It just happened, 3 people are dead, we have no idea what occurred. Seriously? Like, seriously?

We have seen this accident before. We have seen every accident before.

The whole idea of mastery is instinctively to apprehend the small tells that announce the future before it gets here.
If the martial artist waited for the fist to hit his face before apprehending that a punch was coming... well, he wouldn't be a master then would he? He'd also be ravaged about the face and neck.
If the batter ran a regression analysis on every millisecond of the ball's trajectory as it left the pitcher's hand and hurtled toward home plate, he'd never hit even a single, and he'd not be working in MLB.

 

[Space Monkey]

Sucks to hear. Hope learning can come out of this for future safety,,,

RIP.

Yeah, and if a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his ass a'hoppin'.

If this industry and its stuffed, sinecured overlords gave a rat's ass about prioritizing actual safety and actual competence over some paperwork-derived simulacrum of safety and proxy for competency, that frog might get his wings!

 

[Space Monkey]

Yes, agreed. I think they were legal to do what they were doing (until they broke all sorts of rules by crashing), but the fact that the exact same maneuver would be prohibited if they had been cleared for an instrument circling maneuver does give one an idea of the characteristics of the aircraft in the scenario.

The aircraft? Or the pilots?

If a crash happens in the woods, and there's nobody there to hear it, does it make a sound?

 

[BobDDuck]

This hits very close to home and is jarring news. I used to fly the passengers, they were great people.

Sorry to hear that. Not confirmed, but it's sounding like I used to fly with one of the pilots long ago.

 

[Space Monkey]

This is eerily similar to the Lear 35 crash a TEB. Another circling approach gone wrong.

Ya think?

 

[Jimmy_Norton]

Ya think?

I am curious to hear your flying background.

 

[Space Monkey]

A little google searching shows that the 11 approach is often not used due to conflicts with Sacramento and Reno traffic flows. No idea if that was the case here.

Even if that's the case, as long as you keep the landing zone in sight, there's no restriction on, you know, extending your downwind, base, or final. A "circling" approach is NOT an overhead break; it need not look ANYTHING like and actual "circle".

 

[fholbert]

Even if that's the case, as long as you keep the landing zone in sight, there's no restriction on, you know, extending your downwind, base, or final.

Not really. Overly simplified to a fault.

 

[Space Monkey]

I am curious to hear your flying background.

Note previous post. Nothing to hear.

If a crash happens in the woods, and there's nobody there to hear it, does it make a sound?