A bad/poor pilot

[MikeD]

This! I’m forced to fly with my boss’ CFI/II. He has 980TT, with 50 hours of piston multi, and ZERO turbine time. The boss sent him to the CJ3 initial as a “gift” (Which puts him in a pretty questionable ethics situation IMHO).

So, now he has an SOE and guess who get that glorious job? Before ever stepping into the ”real” plane, he actually said, “I can’t wait to get this SOE done so I can start flying the plane by myself”. Hmmm…25hrs of TOTAL turbine/turbojet time and you THINK you’ll be ready for the world……?

The problem is, he doesn’t want to learn anything beyond what FlightSafety has taught him. “Yeah, that’s what they said at FlightSafety” is his favorite line. I laid out a training plan so we could start from zero and move forward; he wanted nothing to do with it! He’s literally miles behind the plane, doesn’t want to listen, and I don’t think he has what it takes to go the speeds and altitudes we travel (at least not now).

The first time we flew together, he was right seat (this was before he punked my training plan) and he struggled getting an IFR clearance; this actually vapor-locked him. Later, we went through about a 700‘ layer of clouds, got ice, blah blah blah. As we cleared the tops, he said, “Wow, that’s the first time I’ve been in the clouds!”
”Wait, you’re a CFII, don’t you take your students into the clouds?”
”No, in the NE, we just don’t want to deal with all of that”.
”You’re doing your students a disservice if you’re not training them to the fullest.”
”That‘s your opinion.”

His flying skills are sub-par. NO understanding of power management, speeds, and systems as they relate to FLIGHT (he understands the books but not the application of the contents of the book). Furthermore, he’s unwilling to take advise or accept the help Because, “I have a type rating, you know!”

BOTTOM LINE:
Is this guy a poor or bad pilot?

He’s a CFI/II so he’s got some skills but, like ALL of us, he has limits to both physical and mental capabilities. He clearly can handle a Cirrus SR22 and is “rumored” to be quite good.
However he is WAY outside of his element in a CJ3. On the ground in a CJ3, poor pilot, in the air in a CJ3, bad pilot. I answer the above question like this: Would I feel comfortable sitting in the back with him flying? No, I would not!,

Thank God my responsibility for him doesn’t extend beyond his completion of 25hrs. 5.8 more hours to go……….

sounds like a he’s a future smoking hole in the ground.

 

[MikeD]

I'd fly with them, then sit down at the end and give it to them straight- usually it went something like "I know you're anxious to solo but we're not there yet - here are the things I need to see first and here's how I think we can get there - it may take a little more time, but I'm willing to put in the work if you are."
.

“hey son….is there anything else you might possibly be good at in life? Because this isn’t it…..”

 

[MikeD]

Agree! As a military instructor pilot, I crossed the same path With “problem students”.
The bold words above are what I’m dealing with in my scenario. This guy is able but isn’t “willing”!

he just needs to ring the bell. Ring the bell and all the pain goes away. Get a hot meal, a cold drink, air conditioned comfort. I mean, why does he want to put up with this abuse anyway?

 

[Roger Roger]

I’ve only flown with one pilot I would say was bad-with supposedly 800 hours in type he couldn’t or wouldn’t fly anything other than a screaming kamikaze approach in a piston single. I flew one or two training flights with him and sent him back to the DO. Guy ended up balling up a Shorts in West Virginia a couple years later.

Current company had a Lear FO who was supposedly pretty bad-cocky, lackadaisical about everything, and didn’t even try to learn from his mistakes. Nobody missed him when he left.

Finally knew a private guy who had a pretty bad rep, killed himself and a couple pax through the longest Swiss cheese tunnel of dumb decisions I’ve ever heard of.

But to take it back to the original, guys who are always badmouthing everyone around them and who have the ego to think that they know better than anyone else, that’s usually a red flag. I know because I used to be that guy a little bit, but I learned that most of what I took pride in doing “correctly” either didn’t matter, or was totally a matter of style.

 

[fholbert]

This! I’m forced to fly with my boss’ CFI/II. He has 980TT, with 50 hours of piston multi, and ZERO turbine time. The boss sent him to the CJ3 initial as a “gift” (Which puts him in a pretty questionable ethics situation IMHO).

I spent the longest 2 hours in my life with a guy like that. He owned the charter company.

NEVER synced the props. Two ficking hours of whap whap whap whap .... It's kinda funny today.

 

[Space Monkey]

View attachment 59826

It always makes for a good marketing campaign or meme, yet still, it's just not typically true.

Lack of knowledge leading to bad decisions? Sure.
Lack of skill resulting in poor execution? Ok.

Bad judgement is a tough one. It's more of a "character" or "cultural" issue than a trainable skill or knowledge item.

 

[Space Monkey]

Those who can't do, teach, you know.

Only in America: Historically, and even today in most of the rest of the world it's, "if you work really hard and become very excellent, one day you might be good enough to teach."

 

[Space Monkey]

Agree! As a military instructor pilot, I crossed the same path With “problem students”.
The bold words above are what I’m dealing with in my scenario. This guy is able but isn’t “willing”!

Are there now "problem students" in residence at modern military flight training programs? I mean, initial military intake has almost always included a passel of duds, but typically, they were not allowed to linger.

 

[dustoff17]

Are there now "problem students" in residence at modern military flight training programs? I mean, initial military intake has almost always included a passel of duds, but typically, they were not allowed to linger.

Wouldn't go THAT far. The program really isolates the problem kids. I was referring to those pilots that are in a "slump" in their training or advancement in the training process. These pilots need that extra time and energy to motivate them to move forward.

I know a pilot that ended his military career with 1,800+hrs of total time. He logged a TOTAL of 1.2 hours of PIC time; his first flight as PIC was his last! He continued to fly for 10+ years after this but never got back to PIC.

Bad pilot? Not really but wouldn't trust him while sitting in the back either!

 

[///AMG]

I know a pilot that ended his military career with 1,800+hrs of total time. He logged a TOTAL of 1.2 hours of PIC time; his first flight as PIC was his last! He continued to fly for 10+ years after this but never got back to PIC.

Bad pilot? Not really but wouldn't trust him while sitting in the back either!

I don't care what grey, brown or green aircraft you fly......that is a pretty big red flag anywhere IMHO.

 

[Richman]

uy ended up balling up a Shorts in West Virginia a couple years later.

Was that the one at Charlie-West?

 

[Roger Roger]

Was that the one at Charlie-West?

Yeh. The video of the crash looked pretty much like his approaches in a 207.

 

[Richman]

Yeh. The video of the crash looked pretty much like his approaches in a 207.

The text messages from the FO were ugly. You can read them all in the NTSB report.

 

[roundout]

The text messages from the FO were ugly. You can read them all in the NTSB report.

I flew with someone who was a friend of the FO. Very sad. And senseless.

 

[Roger Roger]

The text messages from the FO were ugly. You can read them all in the NTSB report.

Yep. Read all of that when it came out.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Sad. She deserved better.

 

[Space Monkey]

Sad. She deserved better.

Yeah, she truly did.

Sadly, as with most 135 operators, the paperwork of safety was FAR more important that the reality of safety. (pun intended)

 

[Bamaaviator]

Perhaps a generalization, but it seems those who've flown freight/commuters/RJs seem to roll with the punches a little easier. Always chuckle at the time one of my first captains at SJI had a mini meltdown because he ACTUALLY had to stop the airplane for a brief moment while rampers got into position on a 100+ degree sunny day.

Kinda like those folks that complain about seeing constructions workers 'standing around', some just haven't every truly labored a day in their life and it shows.

Next time tell the captain this, then say ‘I kid, I kid.’

 

[Bamaaviator]

In all seriousness, the flight school environment is ripe for demonstration of Dunning-Krueger. Every 300 hour ink still wet CFI thinks they're hot •, and it is also common to get unsolicited opinions from them.

Take a look at the five hazardous attitudes, and how a pilot operates the machine. You can be a bad pilot because of those attitudes or just a terrible equipment operator.

I laughed so hard because of how true this is! The dunning-Krueger effect is indeed alive and well at flight schools!!!

 

[Bamaaviator]

This! I’m forced to fly with my boss’ CFI/II. He has 980TT, with 50 hours of piston multi, and ZERO turbine time. The boss sent him to the CJ3 initial as a “gift” (Which puts him in a pretty questionable ethics situation IMHO).

So, now he has an SOE and guess who get that glorious job? Before ever stepping into the ”real” plane, he actually said, “I can’t wait to get this SOE done so I can start flying the plane by myself”. Hmmm…25hrs of TOTAL turbine/turbojet time and you THINK you’ll be ready for the world……?

The problem is, he doesn’t want to learn anything beyond what FlightSafety has taught him. “Yeah, that’s what they said at FlightSafety” is his favorite line. I laid out a training plan so we could start from zero and move forward; he wanted nothing to do with it! He’s literally miles behind the plane, doesn’t want to listen, and I don’t think he has what it takes to go the speeds and altitudes we travel (at least not now).

The first time we flew together, he was right seat (this was before he punked my training plan) and he struggled getting an IFR clearance; this actually vapor-locked him. Later, we went through about a 700‘ layer of clouds, got ice, blah blah blah. As we cleared the tops, he said, “Wow, that’s the first time I’ve been in the clouds!”
”Wait, you’re a CFII, don’t you take your students into the clouds?”
”No, in the NE, we just don’t want to deal with all of that”.
”You’re doing your students a disservice if you’re not training them to the fullest.”
”That‘s your opinion.”

His flying skills are sub-par. NO understanding of power management, speeds, and systems as they relate to FLIGHT (he understands the books but not the application of the contents of the book). Furthermore, he’s unwilling to take advise or accept the help Because, “I have a type rating, you know!”

BOTTOM LINE:
Is this guy a poor or bad pilot?

He’s a CFI/II so he’s got some skills but, like ALL of us, he has limits to both physical and mental capabilities. He clearly can handle a Cirrus SR22 and is “rumored” to be quite good.
However he is WAY outside of his element in a CJ3. On the ground in a CJ3, poor pilot, in the air in a CJ3, bad pilot. I answer the above question like this: Would I feel comfortable sitting in the back with him flying? No, I would not!,

Thank God my responsibility for him doesn’t extend beyond his completion of 25hrs. 5.8 more hours to go……….

This kind of stuff reminds me that I made the right decision to not go the corporate route. I know there are good/decent flight departments out there, but there seems to be too many bad ones that allow stuff like this to happen. And sometimes good flight departments turn very sour. I’ve heard, and seen for myself too many questionable practices in corporate aviation to ever consider that a viable career route. I almost went that route but turned down a job offer, thankfully, after discovering so many bad things about it. At that time, I decided that continuing to CFI in the right seat of a skyhawk was preferable to taking that corporate job. Even on CFI pay, I still feel like I had made the best decision at the time.