A bad/poor pilot

T/O w/FSII said:
Another way you can tell a bad/poor pilot is when you ask them what they can legally fly and they don’t have a clue.
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Another way you can tell is when an A320 guy gets a 737, and on the first sim takeoff they pull on the oxygen mask and the damn thing doesn't takeoff. So embarrassing!
 
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CFI A&P said:
In all seriousness, the flight school environment is ripe for demonstration of Dunning-Krueger. Every 300 hour ink still wet CFI thinks they're hot •, and it is also common to get unsolicited opinions from them.
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I've had the opposite experience, really - we do get a fair number of wet-ink 300-hour CFIs. When they start, they're generally wide-eyed and more afraid of making a mistake with a student and doing something wrong. Not a single one of them has displayed the attitude you describe. It might have a lot to do with the way we train and hire, too - we don't train every CFI we hire, and perhaps the Chief is weeding some of those out. Dunno.

The more experienced CFIs spend time with mentoring our newbies and helping them understand the job. And maybe we're outliers, but I frequently see a lot of natural teamwork from the CFIs at my school. We support each other, often brainstorm ways to help each other's students get over training hurdles, etc - it's just a really good environment.
 
dustoff17 said:
I talked to an FFA (yeah, I know) examiner from a FSDO about this. I told him what I’ve been seeing, my opinion of his capabilities, and my concerns for his future operation in a turbojet. Also told him what the Director of Training told me about this guy’s bare-minimum performance during initial.

According to him, my “responsibility“ in an SOE situation is to “SUPERVISE”. Also, he said, “In MOST cases, while these flights include tips, techniques, and instruction, it is NOT a regulatory requirement.”
”That seems a bit weird to me.”
”Are you an instructor and did you issue the Type Rating?”
”No Sir to both.”
“Was he in the left seat functioning as the PIC for a minimum of 25 hours?”
”Yes, Sir.”
“Then YOUR responsibility for the SOE and the sign-off has been met.”
”And when he has an accident?” [NOTE: when, not if]
“I’m sure you’ll be questioned but the burden for his performance falls on FlightSafety here.”
“OK, thank you for your time….”

As I posted earlier…..Whew!
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While that may be technically correct, anyone I’ve known who had even a peripheral relationship with someone who was involved in an accident/incident had the NTSB “crawl up their ass” (a recipient’s term).

While there was no direct impact on them, and the NTSB unfailingly polite, every one said it was one of the most unpleasant experiences of their life.
 
Richman said:
While that may be technically correct, anyone I’ve known who had even a peripheral relationship with someone who was involved in an accident/incident had the NTSB “crawl up their ass” (a recipient’s term).

While there was no direct impact on them, and the NTSB unfailingly polite, every one said it was one of the most unpleasant experiences of their life.
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I was in the Army almost 22 years and had to work for one of the most asinine Battalion Commander on the planet. A year after I left the Battalion, he was “officially” diagnosed as Bipolar (of course WE already knew this!)

So, if the NTSB crawls up my ass, they’ll have to get around his desk…

P.S. I get your point and I appreciate the heads up!
 
dustoff17 said:
I was in the Army almost 22 years and had to work for one of the most asinine Battalion Commander on the planet. A year after I left the Battalion, he was “officially” diagnosed as Bipolar (of course WE already knew this!)

So, if the NTSB crawls up my ass, they’ll have to get around his desk…

P.S. I get your point and I appreciate the heads up!
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Nah, I get it. But guys like that almost always self destruct with a poo grenade and the poo gets on everyone in the vicinity unless you’ve had the foresight to extricate yourself from the situation we beforehand.

One guy said the fact that the NTSB was so nice actually made it worse.
 
I seriously appreciate your input and that of others here on this situation. I’ve been a bit overwhelmed by it all.
@SteveC is dead on, so I’m putting together an email that I will send to the two aircraft owners. I’m sending it today so the details don’t slip by……

Thank you to all here, this is why I like JC. Thank you @Derg!!!
 
Richman said:
While that may be technically correct, anyone I’ve known who had even a peripheral relationship with someone who was involved in an accident/incident had the NTSB “crawl up their ass” (a recipient’s term).

While there was no direct impact on them, and the NTSB unfailingly polite, every one said it was one of the most unpleasant experiences of their life.
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man I had to get interviewed for an AIB (Air Force version of NTSB investigation) and at the end of it I felt like the whole thing was my fault even though I wasnt even working the scope.
 
NovemberEcho said:
man I had to get interviewed for an AIB (Air Force version of NTSB investigation) and at the end of it I felt like the whole thing was my fault even though I wasnt even working the scope.
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I know one guy who was the last person to sign someone off before a substantial deal.

To quote him about his “debrief” event: “It was a bad scene, man”
 
Murdoughnut said:
Read the comments. I think we have a winner.

www.kathrynsreport.com

Seawind 3000, N8UU: July 03, 2021, July 02, 2021, June 27, 2021 and June 26, 2021

Captain Dennis Collier Aviation Accident Final Report - National Transportation Safety Board Investigator In Charge (IIC): Hatch, Craig The ...
www.kathrynsreport.com www.kathrynsreport.com
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" I am the airport mgr at KONL..I spent 3 days with this fellow..He landed gear up the day he bought it for 100 plus grand..in CA...Then ran off the runway in NM..wiping out landing lights and left flap..He repaired it..the we were his next stop..5 attempts to land..last one lost it on landing..creamed two runway lights..His story was..Airplane sat for 2 years..when he got to us he had already damaged the hull...I fed him..housed him..and gave him tools and parts..We got his CG corected for his pilot weight..He replaced the trim motor..ad the first was inop..hence the 4 attempts to land..He was way aft..outside the envelope..Luccky to be alive..lucky...His trip to test everything was not much better..his trim was reversed..wiped out right main and brake assembly..Feds talked to him..We advised him to truck the plane..he refused all efforts..Snuck out Saturday..did not pay his bill..made it all the way home..over the lake..his engine quit..He deadsticked it back to a nearby airport..broke the nosewheel.Fixed it again..added fuel..Now ran all the tanks dry..sucked all the fiberglass trash into the fuel system..Took off halfway across the lake..it quit again..Nosegear was locked down..hull was scraped and damaged..lanned dead stick in the lake..nose gear down..Fliped over..lucky to have gotten out..Airplane is at the bottom of Lake MI..Nice guy..bit of a temper..hellbent on gethomeitis...No insurance..lost it all because of god knows why...It was like watching 2 trains heading towards one another..nothing you could do..Even the FAA..after verifying his credentials and barely current currency.They.said to let..him go..Sad day indeed.. "


edit to add:

"What a waste, plane didn't have 100 hours total time. Here is another ad, before price reduced:
AirplaneHub.com - Airplane Listings "
 
dustoff17 said:
This one was in the right column of the above report. THIS guy is a piece of work...

Student medical, reported 2 hours of total time, flying at night with a passenger, leaves the fuel caps off, fuel-starves the engine, crashes and kills his passenger/girlfriend...ok, BAD pilot!
Kathryn's Report: Fuel Exhaustion: Piper PA-22-160, N9227D; fatal accident occurred January 13, 2019 in Kingman, Mohave County, Arizona (kathrynsreport.com)
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That one seems more criminal than accidental.
 
NovemberEcho said:
man I had to get interviewed for an AIB (Air Force version of NTSB investigation) and at the end of it I felt like the whole thing was my fault even though I wasnt even working the scope.
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My buddy used to date a girl who did aviation weather at a US airbase in the UK. When they lost a helicopter in an accident that in the end had nothing to do with weather, the "What did you do that killed these people?" approach of the AIB actually gave her PTSD for a while. I don't get how that's...a useful tactic for an objective, safety-based agency.
 
Maximilian_Jenius said:
Yeah, all that he wanted to do was air his grievances when we'd go up flying and make sounds of disapproval when I did something wrong and take the controls. And yell at me. I fired him as my CFI. He must have had similar attitudes with other students, because he eventually got fired from the flight school.
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Kudos to you for firing the CFI. A lot of students are hesitant and scared to do that.
 
Maximilian_Jenius said:
Yeah, all that he wanted to do was air his grievances when we'd go up flying and make sounds of disapproval when I did something wrong and take the controls. And yell at me. I fired him as my CFI. He must have had similar attitudes with other students, because he eventually got fired from the flight school.
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I learned to fly while in high school at Brown Field near San Diego. The flight instructors were a bunch of crusty retired Navy guys, that was the norm. You missed getting slapped in the back of the head.

I had about 11 hours one lesson, after the third landing he said let me out of here before you kill me. He climbed out of the airplane between the runways (paved) then turned and said, do three landings, the 3rd one to a full stop. I had no idea I was close to solo. Despite all the abuse I guess I was doing okay.
 
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