Shots Fired @ FLL

[CFI A&P]

It has been interesting to see the variety of perspectives on social media as this event unfolds. Mostly centered around the 2nd Amendment. It is puzzling to see the opinions change as material comes out. Here is the timeline of what I saw on my Myspace wall:

At first when the shooter's identity wasn't yet revealed: "More citizens need to be armed to protect ourselves against public shootings."

After the shooter was identified, and that he legally obtained, and traveled with the firearms: "How could this happen?"

Media begins to report that he is a veteran showing signs of mental health issues: "He has PTSD, obviously needs treatment that he probably never received."

Finally, reports have been made that he said ISIS related comments during the shooting: "Another example of the peaceful religion. Ban all Muslims!" (Describing the religion with sarcasm.)

Intriguing how the response to our average shooting (school, workplace, etc..) is "More guns!" but when it has any relation to Islam (whether confirmed or perceived) it is "Ban all Muslims!" Very interesting how the emotions change as the story pans out.

 

[Finny]

It has been interesting to see the variety of perspectives on social media as this event unfolds. Mostly centered around the 2nd Amendment. It is puzzling to see the opinions change as material comes out. Here is the timeline of what I saw on my Myspace wall:

At first when the shooter's identity wasn't yet revealed: "More citizens need to be armed to protect ourselves against public shootings."

After the shooter was identified, and that he legally obtained, and traveled with the firearms: "How could this happen?"

Media begins to report that he is a veteran showing signs of mental health issues: "He has PTSD, obviously needs treatment that he probably never received."

Finally, reports have been made that he said ISIS related comments during the shooting: "Another example of the peaceful religion. Ban all Muslims!" (Describing the religion with sarcasm.)

Intriguing how the response to our average shooting (school, workplace, etc..) is "More guns!" but when it has any relation to Islam (whether confirmed or perceived) it is "Ban all Muslims!" Very interesting how the emotions change as the story pans out.

MySpace?! How 2005 of you.

 

[knot4u]

The easy answer is to legislate for the lowest common denominator, but that's not going to work, it never has, look at the the war on drugs. Living in a free country is going to involve a certain amount of risk, because it's a free country. Criminals don't care about laws, that's why we call them criminals. We catch them and prosecute them using the system we have, but taking away the rights of the majority to attempt to quell the actions of a small group isn't what this country was built on. I will comply with all of the laws regarding the ownership of firearms, but if you want to make them even more restrictive I'll simply ask you to draw a parallel between me and the latest mass shooter that has everyone frothing at the mouth.

 

[Cptnchia]

http://www.snopes.com/lottery-winner-dies-gold-plating/

You're welcome.

Good Lord! Did you actually think I posted that because I thought it was real? You need to try and connect that picture with the post immediately preceding by Derg about his testicles. It's called "humor."

 

[mshunter]

Good Lord! Did you actually think I posted that because I thought it was real? You need to try and connect that picture with the post immediately preceding by Derg about his testicles. It's called "humor."

No, I was being a smart ass.

 

[Deleted member 27505]

I don't have time to read this whole thread, how many posts in is the "ban all guns" post?

I'm not saying no one mentioned guns, but people are saying guns. Thanks, Donald.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

The easy answer is to legislate for the lowest common denominator, but that's not going to work, it never has, look at the the war on drugs. Living in a free country is going to involve a certain amount of risk, because it's a free country. Criminals don't care about laws, that's why we call them criminals.

But he wasn't a criminal until he went to the bathroom, loaded his gun, and put it in the waistband. Now a law was broken. 15 seconds later, shots are fired.

We catch them and prosecute them using the system we have, but taking away the rights of the majority to attempt to quell the actions of a small group isn't what this country was built on. I will comply with all of the laws regarding the ownership of firearms, but if you want to make them even more restrictive I'll simply ask you to draw a parallel between me and the latest mass shooter that has everyone frothing at the mouth.

Restrictive? This guy walked into the FBI office and clearly told them he needed help and was hearing voices, CIA orders, ISIS stuff, etc. It was enough to confiscate his gun and order a mental evaluation. And then somehow, he wasn't mentally adjudicated and got his gun back. If there's one case to mentally adjudicate someone, this was it. And it didn't happen. He got his gun back in 30 days and then later carried out this attack.

Somewhere, someone dropped the ball on this guy even under our current "laws" on the book on this subject.

 

[10SM CLR]

I hope this poor man will be okay and survive.

Small update: Broward County Sheriff reporting three dead, one person in custody, several other people wounded. PAX being moved back inside the airport. How horrible.

Sorry to repost this photo, as I have a hard time with pictures like this... but does anyone know if this man survived? What a sad way to start our year.

 

[NickH]

Based on the photo alone, I'd say he lived. Paramedics are showing little urgency. He's receiving prompt and appropriate first aid from a qualified bystander.

 

[bucksmith]

That would be a negatory. Most mass shootings in this country aren't terrorist attacks. That's the difference. They happen mostly from your seemingly everyday people who just happened to be mentaly sick / hearing voices / nutjobs who don't get the help they need or is not available, which then leads to them never even having a chance to be mentally adjudicated, which in turn leads that question on the gun background check about as useless as tits on a bull.


Watch this Santiago guy claim an insanity defense. And we can't execute someone who was insane now can we.

Respectfully, I think his point was if you made all the guns disappear, the crazy people could still rent a u/haul. If this fella didn't get his gun back, would you suggest he wouldn't of killed? Maybe more would of died from his homemade...
Guns don't murder people, sociopaths do.

 

[A Life Aloft]

Sorry to repost this photo, as I have a hard time with pictures like this... but does anyone know if this man survived? What a sad way to start our year.

There have not been a lot of recent updates on the shooting victims as of late. The last report I could find on the six shooting victims, is that one had been released, two were in good condition and three were in critical condition. So very sad.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

Respectfully, I think his point was if you made all the guns disappear, the crazy people could still rent a u/haul. If this fella didn't get his gun back, would you suggest he wouldn't of killed? Maybe more would of died from his homemade...
Guns don't murder people, sociopaths do.

Right, but they sure as hell make it a lot easier. Any dumbass can pick up a gun and kill people.

 

[A Life Aloft]

Respectfully, I think his point was if you made all the guns disappear, the crazy people could still rent a u/haul. If this fella didn't get his gun back, would you suggest he wouldn't of killed? Maybe more would of died from his homemade...
Guns don't murder people, sociopaths do.

What we should be looking at is how did this man slip through so many cracks.

Why didn't his friends and family get help for him? They all keep stating that his mind was not right, that he seemed normal at times, but other times he seemed lost. He was changed. He talked about the destruction he witnessed and about the killing of children. he had visions that haunted him. Yet what did they do?

Why wasn't he getting treatment yet at a VA hospital where apparently he applied for help?

Why did the FBI not do more when he showed up armed to one of their offices and stated that ISIS was trying to recruit him and was talking to him in his head? The FBI stated in a news conference that he was blithering, disjointed and talked about government mind control. He was paranoid and hearing voices for crap's sake. He had anger issues as well. How many balls were dropped along the way?

What I really didn't like is the FBI stating, 'oh this happens all the time.' Bull chit. You mean people are walking into FBI offices armed and claiming such things? I call b.s. And what's worse, if what the FBI states is true and this is happening on a regular basis and nothing long term is done for these people, how many others are wandering around as ticking time bombs?

A mental health facility released him after four days and his gun was returned to him. Why? He sure as hell wasn't magically cured. He already had a restraining order against him and was convicted for violent domestic abuse just last year. This is someone you want to hand a weapon to? And what follow up treatment and meds was he given? Who was supposed to monitor him?

 

[A Life Aloft]

Right, but they sure as hell make it a lot easier. Any dumbass can pick up a gun and kill people.

And any dumbass can rent or steal an SUV, a moving truck or a big rig. Drive the damn thing into hundreds of innocent people standing/walking outside of any airport in the country or at any of tens of thousands of large public venues for that matter, in thousands of cities. It doesn't get any easier than that, in truth.

 

[bucksmith]

Right, but they sure as hell make it a lot easier. Any dumbass can pick up a gun and kill people.

Well, this is the circle argument that is at home in the lav.
That's a silly thing to respond with, because any dumbass can rent a truck, or pick up some fertilizer or whatever. The mental health issue is what should be focused on, not the gun or the truck or the hammer this sick person used to kill people.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Respectfully, I think his point was if you made all the guns disappear, the crazy people could still rent a u/haul. If this fella didn't get his gun back, would you suggest he wouldn't of killed? Maybe more would of died from his homemade...
Guns don't murder people, sociopaths do.

The only logical conclusion I can draw from your post is that, proportionately speaking, we therefore must have the most amount of sociopaths of all the 1st world countries?

Because if it isn't guns killing people, then they would be homemade bombs and trucks. Like that happens in the UK, Switzerland, Finland, Norway, etc. ??

And any dumbass can rent or steal an SUV, a moving truck or a big rig. Drive the damn thing into hundreds of innocent people standing/walking outside of any airport in the country or at any of tens of thousands of large public venues for that matter, in thousands of cities. It doesn't get any easier than that, in truth.

Well, this is the circle argument that is at home in the lav.
That's a silly thing to respond with, because any dumbass can rent a truck, or pick up some fertilizer or whatever. The mental health issue is what should be focused on, not the gun or the truck or the hammer this sick person used to kill people.

But in America, that doesn't happen. Some of the worse driving into a crowd incidents here were old person driving or drunk-type. Not premeditated murder. (And yes, there have been a couple cases of that). But by and large, mass deaths in this country continue to be via gun. Not bomb, not truck, not car, and not knife.

Because 1st world European countries have a stricter gun policy, but presumably a similar number of proportionate pyscho/nutjobs, you would think you' see more cars ramming into people or bombs going off. But that's not happening. Those in Europe are almost exclusively reserved for terrorists.

So no, the argument of "if not guns, then bombs or cars/trucks" doesn't really bear truth based on the evidence of other countries.

 

[mshunter]

So no, the argument of "if not guns, then bombs or cars/trucks" doesn't really bear truth based on the evidence of other countries.

Actually, when adjusted for population, we fair pretty well, especially considering how many more guns we have than other countries. Sorry, but you're wrong here. We're just lucky enough to have not seen people use vehicles and car bombs yet in "terrorist" attacks, because we have access to guns. Change that, and the method will change is all. So far, they've mostly used just airplanes.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/ijr.com/2015/12/348197-paris-attack-claim-mass-shootings/amp/

 

[Nark]

The only logical conclusion I can draw from your post is that, proportionately speaking, we therefore must have the most amount of sociopaths of all the 1st world countries?

Because if it isn't guns killing people, then they would be homemade bombs and trucks. Like that happens in the UK, Switzerland, Finland, Norway, etc. ??

But in America, that doesn't happen. Some of the worse driving into a crowd incidents here were old person driving or drunk-type. Not premeditated murder. (And yes, there have been a couple cases of that). But by and large, mass deaths in this country continue to be via gun. Not bomb, not truck, not car, and not knife.

Because 1st world European countries have a stricter gun policy, but presumably a similar number of proportionate pyscho/nutjobs, you would think you' see more cars ramming into people or bombs going off. But that's not happening. Those in Europe are almost exclusively reserved for terrorists.

So no, the argument of "if not guns, then bombs or cars/trucks" doesn't really bear truth based on the evidence of other countries.

I think you're oblivious as to what happens around Europe on a daily basis.

 

[Nark]

Actually, when adjusted for population, we fair pretty well, especially considering how many more guns we have than other countries. Sorry, but you're wrong here. We're just lucky enough to have not seen people use vehicles and car bombs yet in "terrorist" attacks, because we have access to guns. Change that, and the method will change is all. So far, they've mostly used just airplanes.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/ijr.com/2015/12/348197-paris-attack-claim-mass-shootings/amp/

McVeigh & Nichols-> Aryan Republican Army.

Our law enforcement stops a lot of heinous acts before they shed blood.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Actually, when adjusted for population, we fair pretty well, especially considering how many more guns we have than other countries. Sorry, but you're wrong here. We're just lucky enough to have not seen people use vehicles and car bombs yet in "terrorist" attacks, because we have access to guns. Change that, and the method will change is all. So far, they've mostly used just airplanes.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/ijr.com/2015/12/348197-paris-attack-claim-mass-shootings/amp/

Your website's definitions change everything. "However, the source massshootingtracker.org qualifies a “mass shooting” as any shooting incident with more than 4 injuries." And using a Rampage Shooting Index from a defunct website doesn't add any credibility to their argument. Look, you can change definitions of a mass shooting to show just about anything you want on paper.

And what do you mean "they've" mostly used just airplanes? You're talking terrorists and I clearly made the distinction that for mass shootings and deaths, we're excluding terrorist events. Just like we don't include war related deaths in the stats either. Most of the mass shootings in this country were mentally sick people who didn't get the help they needed in time, were off their meds, were ignored, etc, and most likely "all of the above."

U.S.' index of 0.12 per 5,000,000 places it behind Norway (recall the Anders Breivik massacre), Finland, Slovakia, Israel, and Switzerland - at half the ratio.

Disingenuous at best. Norway's one massive shooting totally throws off their numbers. It's ridiculous to use that one shooting and a "rampage shooting index" from a defunct website to prove a point.

I think you're oblivious as to what happens around Europe on a daily basis.

We're talking mass death incidents, non-terror related. Those are always picked up by some media source.