Norwegian Hiring 787/777 FO's FLL

[Der rote Baron]

@Skåning OSM has an office in Singapore. Most long haul contracts are with OSM Singapore.
Edit: Cyprus is one of the EU tax havens, I doubt that you'll find there a "real" operational headquarter

 

[Maximilian_Jenius]

The contract is with OSM Aviation, apparently they have a FLL office and are headquartered in Cyprus (which is in the EU). I'm not sure where the info about Singapore comes from, maybe their European pilots are staffed by an agency based there?



The whole crux of the issue for me is that there are so many other injustices in US aviation that should be addressed first, before going after Norwegian. Things like poor first year pay at Sprirt, Frontier, and until recently, Allegiant. The plethora of South Florida sketchy 121 companies and the race to the bottom with supplemental 121. Not to mention the whole crap show that is the regionals and how they're represented by the same union that their low wages supplement at mainline.

Maybe it's a forrest through the trees but I just dont see how everyone makes a big stink about this while we have so many larger issues effecting American pilot jobs.

I think that it could maybe only get worse here, with NAI!

 

[FloridaLarry]

Detroit to Toronto also made guys four-engined-jet international captains.

International it may be, but the sign on the next gates (look above the cockpit with the four throttles) says "Aeroporte Montreal," not "Toronto."

 

[🦈💜]

The whole crux of the issue for me is that there are so many other injustices in US aviation that should be addressed first, before going after Norwegian. Things like poor first year pay at Sprirt, Frontier, and until recently, Allegiant. The plethora of South Florida sketchy 121 companies and the race to the bottom with supplemental 121. Not to mention the whole crap show that is the regionals and how they're represented by the same union that their low wages supplement at mainline.

Despite its safety record, the aviation industry in the USA—and how we treat our pilots—should be a point of national shame. When I tell people how much I make, they all, to a one, are shocked, and agree that it's completely not right. And this is AFTER first-year pay was almost -doubled-.

So in a way, it'd be a lot easier to be sympathetic to the plight of the major airlines if they showed half this amount of care about the fate of their regional brethren... because, frankly, the pay and working conditions of major airline pilots are riding, in no small part, on the backs of regional pilots, without whom their companies would be less profitable and their pay likewise correspondingly lower*.

Now, I'm not blaming the pilots outright—management will take whatever road they can to have as much cheap flying as they can, after all—but I'm saying that if the health of the US aviation industry was actually an issue for the airline pilot unions (instead of the high-end wages and work rules for the elite, pulling everyone else along with the whole carrot/stick thing), they would have been making noise about regional pay/working conditions for decades until some form of change was achieved.

In this case, we don't care about the work rules of the regionals, or pay, or anything else—NAI comes in above most of the regionals in both, after all. No, we care about NAI only because they're threatening airline routes with major airline equipment, and that's a problem. Fundamentally, it reminds me of the clamor you'd see in business if companies started trying to outsource executives.
It's ok to outsource all the programmer jobs, the data entry jobs, the support jobs, etc... but at the first hint that the management is going to be outsourced, they'd freak out and expect everyone to band together to protect them. And this reminds me of that, to no small degree.

Maybe it's a forrest through the trees but I just dont see how everyone makes a big stink about this while we have so many larger issues effecting American pilot jobs.

(Affecting, not effecting)

In general, it's a problem that should be addressed. But I agree with you in part—in this case, it's only the problem of the day because we don't want to threaten the elite... which we hope to someday be.

As far as I can tell, America is relatively unique in that we sell the American dream to the poor, who then buy it hook, line and sinker; they vote against their own best interests to protect those at the top, because they believe they'll be there someday. It's a form of collective and individual exceptionalism that we use collectively to effectively keep the poor self-repressed.

So yeah ... NAI bad.

Other things also bad.

Industry, outside of the 'elite', is a dumpster fire. But nobody cares, as long as planes aren't crashing and pilots allow themselves to be strung along for peanuts.

-Fox

 

[🦈💜]

* — This is a simplistic abstraction of a very complex relationship, but I trust that everyone can connect the dots enough to agree, if they care.

 

[BobDDuck]

* — This is a simplistic abstraction of a very complex relationship, but I trust that everyone can connect the dots enough to agree, if they care.

Yes but...

With one example you gave (regionals) the jobs exist (in fact many, many more of them than in the past) but pay poorly. In the other example you gave (NAI) the jobs would cease to exist.

It's not classism. It's looking out for your future.

 

[FlyingAccountant]

Given the lengths that company has gone to circumvent labor laws and screw over other labor groups in their company, I wouldn’t trust them as far as I can throw them, shiny jet syndrome be damned.


That being said, I’m sure there’s no shortage of starry eyed regional kiddos that are falling over themselves to apply.

 

[Skåning]

Despite its safety record, the aviation industry in the USA—and how we treat our pilots—should be a point of national shame. When I tell people how much I make, they all, to a one, are shocked, and agree that it's completely not right. And this is AFTER first-year pay was almost -doubled-.

So in a way, it'd be a lot easier to be sympathetic to the plight of the major airlines if they showed half this amount of care about the fate of their regional brethren... because, frankly, the pay and working conditions of major airline pilots are riding, in no small part, on the backs of regional pilots, without whom their companies would be less profitable and their pay likewise correspondingly lower*.

Now, I'm not blaming the pilots outright—management will take whatever road they can to have as much cheap flying as they can, after all—but I'm saying that if the health of the US aviation industry was actually an issue for the airline pilot unions (instead of the high-end wages and work rules for the elite, pulling everyone else along with the whole carrot/stick thing), they would have been making noise about regional pay/working conditions for decades until some form of change was achieved.

In this case, we don't care about the work rules of the regionals, or pay, or anything else—NAI comes in above most of the regionals in both, after all. No, we care about NAI only because they're threatening airline routes with major airline equipment, and that's a problem. Fundamentally, it reminds me of the clamor you'd see in business if companies started trying to outsource executives.
It's ok to outsource all the programmer jobs, the data entry jobs, the support jobs, etc... but at the first hint that the management is going to be outsourced, they'd freak out and expect everyone to band together to protect them. And this reminds me of that, to no small degree.



(Affecting, not effecting)

In general, it's a problem that should be addressed. But I agree with you in part—in this case, it's only the problem of the day because we don't want to threaten the elite... which we hope to someday be.

As far as I can tell, America is relatively unique in that we sell the American dream to the poor, who then buy it hook, line and sinker; they vote against their own best interests to protect those at the top, because they believe they'll be there someday. It's a form of collective and individual exceptionalism that we use collectively to effectively keep the poor self-repressed.

So yeah ... NAI bad.

Other things also bad.

Industry, outside of the 'elite', is a dumpster fire. But nobody cares, as long as planes aren't crashing and pilots allow themselves to be strung along for peanuts.

-Fox

VERY well said, it's a complex issue and revealing about the industry as a whole.

 

[pete2800]

Does anyone know what the pay is? No, I'm not applying. Yes, I am curious.

 

[Der rote Baron]

The best paid wb job in the US....

FO 5.500 USD
Relief Captain 7.500 USD
Captain 10.000 USD

Edit: But first of all you have to invest, because there is a 3 year bond with Norwegian.....

 

[Adler]

International it may be, but the sign on the next gates (look above the cockpit with the four throttles) says "Aeroporte Montreal," not "Toronto."

Canada = Canada

 

[gotWXdagain]

I wasn't a huge fan of "scab lists." But any american pilot who flies for this operation needs to be put on the blackest of black lists.

 

[Skåning]

I wasn't a huge fan of "scab lists." But any american pilot who flies for this operation needs to be put on the blackest of black lists.

But someone who flew for Freedom, GoJet, or PSA is ok?

 

[gotWXdagain]

But someone who flew for Freedom, GoJet, or PSA is ok?

Everybody in the domestic regional feed was getting whipsawed against each other, seems like they did what they had to do.

Not so now with NAI.

 

[Skåning]

Everybody in the domestic regional feed was getting whipsawed against each other, seems like they did what they had to do.

Not so now with NAI.

Subverting scope and seniority is NOT "doing what you had to do".

 

[Snuggle]

I wasn't a huge fan of "scab lists." But any american pilot who flies for this operation needs to be put on the blackest of black lists.

Crossing a picket line is not something that should be taken lightly. Nothing wrong with keeping a scab list.

 

[Mike Wise]

The best paid wb job in the US....

FO 5.500 USD
Relief Captain 7.500 USD
Captain 10.000 USD

Edit: But first of all you have to invest, because there is a 3 year bond with Norwegian.....

Keep in mind this is per month salary with 10 days min off. No idea what schedule is like but it sounds like poop! Its literally about half if not more (Based on APC info) of what legacy US carriers are paying their 787 drivers.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Lets just clarify since no picket lines are being crossed, an American choosing to work for Norwegian out of FLL isn't technically a scab.

 

[ctab5060X]

Lets just clarify since no picket lines are being crossed, an American choosing to work for Norwegian out of FLL isn't technically a scab.

Yep!


I'm still trying to figure out how PSA made it into the same sentence as Freedom and GoJet...

 

[typhoonpilot]

That being said, I’m sure there’s no shortage of starry eyed regional kiddos that are falling over themselves to apply.

Not picking on you, but there is a thread wide assumption that is who will be applying for these positions. While some might, you have to remember this is South Florida. There are close to 40 Avianca pilots living in South Florida, many of whom are flying the 787 for less money than this pays. Most have green cards or even citizenship and might well look to this as a way to cut down on their commute to Bogota for a higher QOL and more money. That is just one example. There are dozen, if not hundreds, of other Central and South American green card holders flying for those dirt bag outfits in South Florida. The Norwegian job would be a huge step up for them in many cases.

I wasn't a huge fan of "scab lists." But any american pilot who flies for this operation needs to be put on the blackest of black lists.

Again, not picking on one person but any talk of scab or black lists is laughable to someone who has been in the profession for more than 20 years. For those of us who were working for major airlines in the 80s and saw the advent of the regional jet, we could easily have said something similar for any pilot who would take our jobs by going to fly a CRJ/ERJ for a "commuter". After all, they were directly responsible for the loss of all mainline BAC 1-11, 737-200, DC-9 and Fokker 28/100 flying on the east coast .

Anyone here remember the RJDC? Started by Comair and ASA pilots who wanted scope eliminated so they could get more and bigger jets!! That was a group really helpful to major airline pilots as well .


Typhoonpilot