Delta Negotiations Update

Trip7 said:
We might get that anyway if the strong 12 refuse to be flexible in direction.


There is always deafening silence when this question is asked so I'll ask again, what has Bartels ever accomplished in any negotiation or contract related matter? Because Lee Moak has a long resume of success.
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Everyone's opinion of success is different.
I personally think Moak has done more damage to our careers than good.
 
Trip7 said:
I'll play along...what damage?
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The short and easy of it is, "Proactive engagement" aka giving up 2-3 things to get a little bit more $$ in pay rates and that's about it. It goes beyond just him, it's also his followers that are problematic. We all know negotiations are a give and take but they went too far. Look at "Puppy" and his measley pencil whipped JV settlement last year. BTW the "strong 12" now has some from the 7 that are fed up and seeing the light too.
 
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ClarkGriswold said:
The short and easy of it is, "Proactive engagement" aka giving up 2-3 things to get a little bit more $$ in pay rates. It goes beyond just him, it's also his followers that are problematic. Look at "Puppy" and his measley pencil whipped JV settlement last year.
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Proactive Enagement has been highly successful and has transformed the industry. TA2015 was a big mistake in the Proactive engagement strategy but aside from that road bump it has been a significant reason Delta has led the industry. Probably worse than the TA2015 mistake was the Union 22/7/7 proposal that was outside the solar system and wasted months. An analytical, strategic thinker like Moak defines the market then pushes the edge of the market as far as you can without straining credibility. In light of the raises other top companies received after years of bargaining (FDX/UPS

The NWA/Bill Bartels strategy makes you feel good but unfortunately has never yielded any results. NWA never led the industry in anything, and nobody can name a Bartels accomplishment in the negotiating arena.

The JV settlement was appropriate when you look at the overall widebody operation during that time. RH explained it very clearly on the FB group page. Pilot jobs were very minimally affected. Global Protection trumps Theatre Protection
 
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Yup Northwest never went on strike and got rid of the B scale and secured a contract thus paving the way for United and Delta to getting their "legendary" contracts. NWA R and I also saved a good chunk of their pilots pensions as well. Sorry but how did LM do with that? Yup NWA never did anything. Are you talking only from an ALPA standpoint or do mean as an airline too because we could go on all day if you mean as an airline (Red tail for instance?). You accuse people of spending too much time on CC but cleary you've listened to widget a little too much. I don't recall you answering if you've met RH or just read his BS.
 
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Trip7 said:
Proactive Enagement has been highly successful and has transformed the industry. TA2015 was a big mistake in the Proactive engagement strategy but aside from that road bump it has been a significant reason Delta has led the industry. Probably worse than the TA2015 mistake was the Union 22/7/7 proposal that was outside the solar system and wasted months. An analytical, strategic thinker like Moak defines the market then pushes the edge of the market as far as you can without straining credibility. In light of the raises other top companies received after years of bargaining
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I really don't think you fully understand what proactive engagement is. Moak did way more harm than good at Delta and at ALPA National by looking macro at what was in a company's best interest and totally ignoring the micro.

The only thing I agree with you on is that a 22% initial raise, when you are already at or near the top of the industry, followed by two years of double COLA raises was not a very realistic number.
 
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And now for something completely different, a giant bacon sammich...
 
Trip7 said:
I'll play along...what damage?
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Several hundred large RJs with first class cabins and way more range than the beloved 717.

Perpetually conceding work rules for pay, work rules that will never come back. Shifting bid period lengths in the summer, ALV+15, etc.


And the JV sellout/reset of the Donatelli administration is likely a career changing act in an extremely unfortunate way.
 
Nick said:
Several hundred large RJs with first class cabins and way more range than the beloved 717.

Perpetually conceding work rules for pay, work rules that will never come back. Shifting bid period lengths in the summer, ALV+15, etc.


And the JV sellout/reset of the Donatelli administration is likely a career changing act in an extremely unfortunate way.
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Work rules that never come back? That's inaccurate. 5:15 ADG was a huge work rule improvement that turned several 11 hour 3 days into 15:45.

As far as RJs, talking points like RJ range are emotional arguments. It is clear that Moak's Scope Choke is working. Pilots are paid per block hour. Significant amount of block hours has shifted from Regional to Mainline with contractual protections. It's a big reason you and I are now at Delta and not at the regionals.

American didn't implement scope Choke and their regionals are growing while mainline shrinks.

And on the JV, once again, pilot jobs were not really affected. Management chose to grow flying in Latin America because European markets outside of the UK were terrible. Global Protection Trumps Theatre Protection
 
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