Talon pilot arrested for being drunk.

One needs to wrap their head around the fact that Alcoholism IS a disease. It's a disease that you or more importantly your friends/support network diagnose. The fact that this guy was able to walk at a .30 shows how much of a functioning alcoholic he was and how long this has been perpetuating itself. This event may have saved his life and I would be willing to bet he will be thankful in a number of years that this happened, as will his family and friends.
 
I forgot to add that a friend's ex-wife would get very aggressive when her BAC got that high. Not to through it all on the females, I have several friends where it is the husbands that had the same problem.

My wife has now been employed for a little over a year an hopefully things will get better, She lost her last full time job because of the drinking.
 
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Seggy said:
Sad that you, like others, don't have the mental ability to get it.
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I hate to agree with you, but the only inexcusable part here is what @Nark is saying. Coming from a family that has it on both sides (it killed my grandfather, and the last DUI my grandmother got was for blowing a .41 driving down the wrong side of divided highway), I stand by the fact that it is a disease/mental issue. Some people really can't control it.

Unfortunately, most 135 operators lack the funds to participate in a HIMS program (at least that's how I perceive it). I worked at a few small ones, and one largish one. I only knew what the program really was once I started at a 121 operation.
 
I was told I should delete my post but I will leave it. In my wife's car accident no one was hurt. Yes I should not have hidden the alcohol from the police but I did. My bad. What I am hoping is that other people will learn from my mistakes.
 
Let me ask you this:
@amorris311 @AAPalmTree @Seggy and whoever else:

Would you write or offer a letter of recommendation to this man. After he completed whatever sentence he is handed (you know if convicted, Bill of Rights and all...)


I once supervised a day release of an OB GYN who was convicted of a crime, sexual in nature but isn't a registered sex offender. He was able to keep his medical licenses. He Was released from military confinement and was kicked out of the branch of service he was in.

Would you have any issues using his services?
 
Nark said:
Let me ask you this:
@amorris311 @AAPalmTree @Seggy and whoever else:

Would you write or offer a letter of recommendation to this man. After he completed whatever sentence he is handed (you know if convicted, Bill of Rights and all...)


I once supervised a day release of an OB GYN who was convicted of a crime, sexual in nature but isn't a registered sex offender. He was able to keep his medical licenses. He Was released from military confinement and was kicked out of the branch of service he was in.

Would you have any issues using his services?
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So you're comparing a sexual predator with someone who has a disease with substance abuse?

I have written a letter of recommendation for someone who has completed the HIMS program. That person has since moved on to a legacy carrier and is doing quite well. It's amazing how you go to the extreme with these types of issues. Several months ago you wanted to have the captain of a flight terminated because you heard they left the airplane in order to make a commute. (You still have yet to answer whether or not you were there)

I do not condone the actions of this pilot but I do understand that this industry has a lot of untreated illnesses that can manifest into something scary unless that person reaches out for help. The FAA is finally coming around and addressing these issues so people can get the proper care without fearing the loss of a career. Before throwing the book at people you might want to read up on the amazing benefits of the HIMS program. It's not solely for alcohol and the FAA actually promotes the program.
 
Nark said:
Let me ask you this:
@amorris311 @AAPalmTree @Seggy and whoever else:

Would you write or offer a letter of recommendation to this man. After he completed whatever sentence he is handed (you know if convicted, Bill of Rights and all...)


I once supervised a day release of an OB GYN who was convicted of a crime, sexual in nature but isn't a registered sex offender. He was able to keep his medical licenses. He Was released from military confinement and was kicked out of the branch of service he was in.

Would you have any issues using his services?
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This post is another example of the lack of education. It's nothing personal Nark. It just shows that you don't have a grasp of the program and the individuals it produces when they overcome their addiction. You have pilots (and management) in big positions at your airline (so do we) that are in the same boat as this guy. Some get caught, some get help before they get caught. This is part of the disease. The purpose of this program is to provide a path for help before this happens. It also helps guys that get caught. Unfortunatey, for some, that's what has to happen for change to occur.
Would I recommend someone like this? Yes, and I have. A couple work for your airline.
 
amorris311 said:
So you're comparing a sexual predator with someone who has a disease with substance abuse?

I have written a letter of recommendation for someone who has completed the HIMS program. That person has since moved on to a legacy carrier and is doing quite well. It's amazing how you go to the extreme with these types of issues. Several months ago you wanted to have the captain of a flight terminated because you heard they left the airplane in order to make a commute. (You still have yet to answer whether or not you were there)

I do not condone the actions of this pilot but I do understand that this industry has a lot of untreated illnesses that can manifest into something scary unless that person reaches out for help. The FAA is finally coming around and addressing these issues so people can get the proper care without fearing the loss of a career. Before throwing the book at people you might want to read up on the amazing benefits of the HIMS program. It's not solely for alcohol and the FAA actually promotes the program.
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I didn't ask if you would write a letter for someone who enters the program.
I would happily write a letter of recommendation for a person that recognizes they have a problem and seeks help for it.
I'm quite aware of the disease of alcoholism, despite your jump to conclusion.

Let me quote myself.
Nark said:
I have zero reservations to indefinitely suspend certificates. Wanton disregard for safety is inexcusable. Alcoholism or not.
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Did I say hang him, lock him up indefinitely, or did I say revoke certificates?

To some of you out there losing your ability to fly, for compensation, must seem like a death sentence.

Edited to add:
I'm not talking about HIMS. I'm aware of the program. I've chatted extensively with a regional director (M.D.)for the program. I'm talking about someone taking responsibility for their actions.


Are you advocating a driver who blows a BAC of the same, not have their drivers license revoked?
 
Nark,

He will lose his certs. He will most likely be fired. He will pay dearly for this event. This also can be the best thing that has ever happened to this guy. It's all how he plays it.
 
AAPalmTree said:
Nark,

He will lose his certs. He will most likely be fired. He will pay dearly for this event. This also can be the best thing that has ever happened to this guy. It's all how he plays it.
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Isn't that exactly what I advocated for?


Seggy, are you taking note on this? Clearly my tone and demeanor didn't come through, and it evolved into an adversarial conversation.
 
AAPalmTree said:
You said:
"I have zero reservations to indefinitely suspend certificates."

To me, that means no ability to recover from this. He deserves to lose them. Not forever in my mind.
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And this is where we disagree.
He deserves to recover as a human. Not a pilot.
He severed the line between not giving a poop about anyone one else, and to that of his coworkers, his passengers, his neighbors.

Reality hit him hard. Thank God, no one was killed, unlike hundreds, if not thousands of other alcoholics do. Every day, every week, every month, every year.


There are PROFESSIONS which should be above reproach. A pilot and Doctor come to mind.
 
Nark said:
And this is where we disagree.
He deserves to recover as a human. Not a pilot.
He severed the line between not giving a poop about anyone one else, and to that of his coworkers, his passengers, his neighbors.
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And with this statement, what you actually know and understand about alcoholism is glaringly obvious.

As to your statement about the OBGYN, no, I wouldn't send my daughter to them for female issues. They can't be trusted. Same goes for an alcoholic. Keep them away from booze.
 
mshunter said:
And with this statement, what you actually know and understand about alcoholism is glaringly obvious.

As to your statement about the OBGYN, no, I wouldn't send my daughter to them for female issues. They can't be trusted. Same goes for an alcoholic. Keep them away from booze.
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You're right. I know nothing of alcoholism. I've never known anyone with an alcohol problem. I've never lived with someone with an alcohol problem. I've never been to counseling with someone who has an alcohol problem. I've never called the police on someone with an alcohol problem.

I haven't been to hundreds of domestic disturbance calls, because of alcoholism. I haven't watched bodies loaded into bags, as a result of alcoholism.

You know me very well.
 
Sounds like you know one side of alcoholism. You should educate yourself to the other. There are individuals in the field of medicine (including a very famous heart surgeon who has pioneered new procedures) who are in recovery. Thank God they were allowed to continue their work after working through their alcoholism. Saved a lot of lives. The same could be said of pilots and nurses and lawyers and architects and psychiatrists and well, you get the point. Or do you?
 
SteveC said:
Yeah, the first news story was way off base (surprised?). They never came close to leaving the ground.

<edit to add> you have to be a professional drunk to semi-function at that BAC. Good friend of mine is recovered (recovering?) alcoholic, and he has told me similar in the past - you have to be at the point where you can consistently polish off a whole bottle of vodka on a daily basis before you can build the tolerance to attain that kind of BAC without being out cold or even hospitalized. No way am I giving the "maybe you should call in sick" option to someone that far gone.
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there is no such thing as an alcoholic. call in sick? when you are on a hit list? the correct course of action is to quit, unless you like medical fraud, pseudoscience, and paying kickbacks to shills that did something so wrong they need their own social club and a medical front group.
 
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