Jennifer Aniston pitches for Emirates

typhoonpilot said:
What are the implications for UAL pilots when the company buys a part of Azul? What are the implications for Delta pilots when the company buys part of China Eastern?

Your enemy is not foreign competition. Lower priced foreign competition and state sponsored competition has existed for decades and it will continue to exist well into the future. The airline employees' enemy more accurately is their own airline management's concept of what is good for the airline, versus what is good for the employees. They will continue alliances, code shares, equity stakes, etc all in an effort to outsource growth to lower cost entities.

I've it before and I'll say it again, there is a whole new and growing passenger base in the previously third world countries that did not travel 20 years ago. The growth in that market is huge. The potential in that market is huge. Yet, the U.S. carriers are not tapping into it. They are too busy with capacity controls in the U.S. domestic market and across the Atlantic. Okay great, that is working for now but it is not going to be good for them over the long term as all these new entrants are gaining huge market share at their (and their alliance partners) expense.

It's not the world of 40 years ago where the vast majority of worldwide airline travel was in the small space between the Mississippi river and the eastern seaboard. You have to recognize that fact. The U.S. airlines have to recognize that fact. Companies in every industry have to adapt to the changing marketplace or they will perish. Failure to adapt to those changes would be what decimates* the U.S. airline industry.


Typhoonpilot


* I hate that word because it means reduce by 10% and is used incorrectly all the time.
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I'll agree with management being another part of the problem. There are many, many problems the US airline industry will face.

*decimate:

http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2012/09/does-decimate-mean-destroy-one-tenth/
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
State money for Emirates? ALPA pitchline or is there concrete proof?

As for labor laws, actually they do have UAE labor laws. Part of those laws include things like end-of-service payment andthat unions are illegal. Anyway, a 1st year EK F/A makes ~ $4k USD per month and gets free housing, a private bedroom in an apartment shared with another FA.

Now if you want to talk about Qatar Airways, that's another story in terms of how al-Baker treats his FAs.
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But doesn't the company get to invade your personal life for all of those amenities? I'll have to do some searching, but I've heard stories of Emirates employees getting busted by the company for things they do in their off time. Especially things along the lines of fraternization. Which wouldn't be surprising from a culture that uses parts of sharia law.

Like I said earlier: glitzy facade.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I disagree. A celebrity doing a commercial is not just a role, it's a product endorsement. She's basically saying "screw America, fly on those foreign carriers!"
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Seggy said:
@typhoonpilot what you type is bullcrap. If the Middle East Carriers JUST want to connect passengers from the United States to Banglalore, then why did they start JFK to MXP service?
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They can compete on those routes because it legal. They can go JFK to any where in the world they want as long as the first stop isn't in the US. Cabotage. So, in a global market the US carriers can try to compete or not, as of now. If we really wanted to shut it down we would create laws that would keep foreign carriers from operating into our domestic airports. Until that happens you can bitch all you want about the ME3, but it's not going to stop. Just like US carriers going from west coast to Japan/China. Or east coast into the EU. As soon as we close our borders to the ME3 or EU carriers, what's to stop Japan, China and the EU from doing the same to us? Some times the rules favor the US, some times they don't. It's a very slippery slope. We can cry human rights all we want, but that and .50 cents won't buy you a cup of tea in The Middle East.
 
PositionAndHold said:
They can compete on those routes because it legal. They can go JFK to any where in the world they want as long as the first stop isn't in the US. Cabotage. So, in a global market the US carriers can try to compete or not, as of now. If we really wanted to shut it down we would create laws that would keep foreign carriers from operating into our domestic airports. Until that happens you can bitch all you want about the ME3, but it's not going to stop. Just like US carriers going from west coast to Japan/China. Or east coast into the EU. As soon as we close our borders to the ME3 or EU carriers, what's to stop Japan, China and the EU from doing the same to us? Some times the rules favor the US, some times they don't. It's a very slippery slope. We can cry human rights all we want, but that and .50 cents won't buy you a cup of tea in The Middle East.
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You obviously have never heard of Open Skies agreements, freedom rights, etc.
 
Yeah.
Seggy said:
You obviously have never heard of Open Skies agreements, freedom rights, etc.
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So if a non member country doesn't agree to open skies can they still operate in and out of the US? Uh, yes. So what teeth does open skies have? What countries are not members and do they get to operate into the US?
 
Cal Goat said:
Exactly.

Plus we're talking about a country that has a Bugatti Veyron (among other high dollar cars) police car because apparently they can just poop out money. Now I've never been to Dubai, but most reasonable people report that it's a glitzy facade with very little substance. I know they're comparatively liberal there, but I wouldn't take my wife and daughter to live in that place.

It's clear that they're not running that airline on commercial profit alone. A380s with showers and private suites and bars ziping all over the globe to serve a tiny gulf state seems just slightly absurd. But maybe I'm not completely informed on all the data.
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Dubai is like America threw up on the desert again (Las Vegas). The Holiday Inn Express is pricey, next to all the other American hotels. Then to eat you have a Applebees next to a TGI Fridays, next to a Ruby Tuesdays....
 
PositionAndHold said:
They can compete on those routes because it legal. They can go JFK to any where in the world they want as long as the first stop isn't in the US. Cabotage.
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That's actually not correct. Firstly, cabotage is the domestic transportation of passengers. They are free to fly between two U.S. Cities and pick up passengers before leaving the U.S., but cannot offload passengers or cargo. Secondly, they cannot go from the U.S. to anywhere in the world. That is a seventh freedom. DXB MXP JFK is a fifth freedom. They don't have that either. They only have first, second, third, fourth, and sixth freedom rights for any flights pertaining to the U.S.

LH-PolicyBrief-October-2012-Traffic-rights.png
 
Cptnchia said:
That's actually not correct. Firstly, cabotage is the domestic transportation of passengers. They are free to fly between two U.S. Cities and pick up passengers before leaving the U.S., but cannot offload passengers or cargo. Secondly, they cannot go from the U.S. to anywhere in the world. That is a seventh freedom. DXB MXP JFK is a fifth freedom. They don't have that either. They only have first, second, third, fourth, and sixth freedom rights for any flights pertaining to the U.S.

LH-PolicyBrief-October-2012-Traffic-rights.png
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I was simplifying things. This is even better. We have the laws that prevent other carriers form doing us harm. All we have to do is enforce them and we're all good right? Why is every body complaining then?
 
PositionAndHold said:
I was simplifying things. This is even better. We have the laws that prevent other carriers form doing us harm. All we have to do is enforce them and we're all good right? Why is every body complaining then?
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Because the Administration is not enforcing the laws.
 
Seggy said:
@typhoonpilot what you type is bullcrap. If the Middle East Carriers JUST want to connect passengers from the United States to Banglalore, then why did they start JFK to MXP service?
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For the same reason United does Kuwait - Bahrain on a 777. Because it can and it wants to.

I flew JFK-MXP by buying a coach class ticket and we had 4 choices: American, Delta, Alitalia, and Emirates. I chose Emirates. Prices were tied between American/Delta/United and Alitalia was the highest.

If I had to buy a ticket and prices were same across the board, my order would be: Emirates, Alitalia, Delta, then American.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
http://www.economist.com/blogs/gulliver/2015/03/airline-subsidies-gulf
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Hardly proof-positive.

Plus, a slippery slope. It's alleging 1.9 billion in savings from a non-unionized work group, but that's just pushing it. If you look at salaries alone and ignore the other cash elements, then you aren't seeing the whole picture. Things like housing, transportation, and education for 3 kids is something that adds huge value over the published income figure for EK pilots.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
For the same reason United does Kuwait - Bahrain on a 777. Because it can and it wants to.
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Do they have fifth freedom rights? That's the only way they can do that. Just like Delta in Japan. They are the only foreign carrier who has fifth freedom rights in Japan and that was a carry over from NWA, who was granted those rights after WWII. It's a very sore spot for the Japanese that Delta can do that.
 
Seggy said:
They can because they legally have the rights to fly the routes by a non-subsidized entity. Big difference.
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Non-subsidized eh? Pretty sure your CEO had to step down because of under-the-table dealings with the PAPD of Newark to gain favoritism advantages over other airlines. Talk about corruption, and walking away with 20+ million dollars too.

All I hear from you is the ALPA-spun "Emirates is subsidized OMG!" that they spew. As I said, I'll give you Qatar and Etihad, but Emirates is pushing it.
 
PositionAndHold said:
That's what I'm getting at. We have all these anti competition laws and we bitch about the ME3 instead of our own politicians.
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The bitching is to put pressure on the administration to grow a pair and finally stand up for its taxpayers and to stop kowtowing to oil money.
 
Cptnchia said:
Do they have fifth freedom rights? That's the only way they can do that. Just like Delta in Japan. They are the only foreign carrier who has fifth freedom rights in Japan and that was a carry over from NWA, who was granted those rights after WWII. It's a very sore spot for the Japanese that Delta can do that.
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As it should be. How would you feel if JAL came into JFK, ATL, DTW, SLC and started flying all sorts of nonstop flights across to Europe and South America? And directly kept the number of international flights down that your home country airline could do?
 
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