Looks Like the Thunderbird's and Blue Angels are Scheduling Shows Again
- Thread starter fholbert
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Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
Let's not make symbolic cuts to multi-million dollar programs when multi-billion dollar cuts are warranted and only survive as a result of the hold that defense contractors have on politicians and the desire of politicians to hold onto military assets in their states.
Demonstration teams and the service academies are trivial expenses in the big picture. Instead of pointing at easy targets of opportunity we need to look at the big picture and reform the processes that have neither served the military or public well.
Here's some interesting reading:
http://www.defense.gov/pubs/DefenseBudgetPrioritiesChoicesFiscalYear2014.pdf
A Life Aloft
Well-Known Member
Yes, the 10 to 12 million people who attend air shows in this country each year are all pilots.
True, but they're costs nonetheless that are unfortunate victims of fiscal mismanagement. The demo teams aren't the problem, they're more a victim. But thats how it goes. Service Academies, we don't need multiple ones. Sure, these are smaller costs in the complete big picture; but everything needs to be looked at at some point. My point being that in these times of fiscal problems......where the chickens have come home to roost from our government's mismanagement.....that there are now no sacred cows anymore; anything and everything are fair game. Start with the big things, I agree.....the billion and trillion things......but everything will and should get a solid look.
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
As I mentioned in an earlier post, most line officers have the knowledge to significantly cut the DOD budget AND increase readiness AND capabilities.
The fact that you excluded the Coast Guard Academy suggests we can shut that one down immediately.
As I mentioned in an earlier post, most line officers have the knowledge to significantly cut the DOD budget AND increase readiness AND capabilities.
The fact that you excluded the Coast Guard Academy suggests we can shut that one down immediately.
Haha! the only reason I didn't include USCG is because they're DHS and we were talking the DOD budget; but hey....I know some pretty good fat that can be trimmed from DHS's spending too!
Marbling.......while great on a nice ribeye; isn't good for a budget.
A lot of people that I know think they're cool. Not pilots, either.
NO!
I'm going to put on my straw hat, hoist a poorly-spelled sign, jump on my medicare-covered mobility scooter and do my best to suck the joy out of the American experience!
PositionAndHold
Well-Known Member
I would be willing to bet airshows featuring the Blues and the T-Birds bring so much revenue to small cities they are probably cost neutral. In fact most airshows use attendance money to raise funds for local and national charitable organizations. Charities like The Wounded Warrior Project, Make-A-Wish and the Red Cross to name a few. The bottom line is, they bring people from all over the country and world, to small towns across America that otherwise wouldn't have very much tourist traffic. They pack hotels, restaurants, and bars. That's local sale taxes paid as a direct result of service demo teams. One article I read about last years Blues appearance in TWF a lady mentioned she came to see them because her son was in the Navy and wanted to see some thing Navy related. If this women and her family have a positive experience, that's more people that become friends of aviation. That creates more support for airports to remain open. The more airports, the more places young people have to train to become tomorrow's professional pilots. It's a big picture type of thing. It's not just about the bottom line some times.
We have certain traditions in this country. Air shows and military demo teams are one of them. I could care less if I ever see a demo team perform again but I know they do good things for communities they visit. As a tax payer I am more than willing to support it.
We have certain traditions in this country. Air shows and military demo teams are one of them. I could care less if I ever see a demo team perform again but I know they do good things for communities they visit. As a tax payer I am more than willing to support it.
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
I'm pretty sure you know that's not true. I actually still live in San Diego; you should see what happens to I-15 when the F18s come out to play on a normal day. Slows way down. Lots and lots and lots of people love this stuff, which is why air shows attract millions of people each year. The Miramar Air Show brings in ~700,000 people each year alone.
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While all of the above is true that you write, it's completely outside the scope of the problem at hand. None of the above matters if combat units aren't getting the $$$ for training and parts, or are otherwise lacking anything.
Fund those first, fully. Then fund the rest with $$$ leftover. Congress and the Pentagon need to understand that. While it's nice that the military helps with boosting the local economy, that's not it's ultimate job. National defense, and the readiness to achieve that, is priority 1.
PositionAndHold
Well-Known Member
Oh I fully understand. And if any combat unit can't maintain readiness I think that's a whole different matter. That's a different question than "should the tax payer pay for demo teams?". In the case of mission readiness it's up to the chain of command to make that happen. But if 16 or so total jets are affecting combat units to that degree some thing else is extremely wrong. I mean there's what 50-60 F-16's (just a WAG based on when I was there) at Hill AFB alone between the AD and guard unit? I find it hard to imagine 8-10 jets sucking away that many spares/new parts. I got out in '98 so I'm sure things have changed but we've mangaged to be engaged in two different fronts for ten years all the while the Blues and T-Birds were flying.
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
Not nearly as high as the one you are on.
So what? I don't agree with every veteran here, but I do respect his opinion. I will add that his experience comes from dealing with the Tbirds, which have a much bigger budget than the Blues do.
Every bit of evidence shows the contrary, the flight demonstration teams are wildly popular with Americans from every conceivable demographic.
About $0.08 each.
So, what to you think about my other cost saving measure, scrapping Old Ironsides?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Constitution
The maintenance budget for a ship that only leaves the dock once a year and the crew can be much better spent on actual fighting ships.
It sounds like the Blues are "owned" differently than the T-Birds too; Blues belonging to Naval Training Command whereas the T-Birds belong to ACC, which is the same pot of money as the rest of the AF fighter units.
You're absolutely right. And it's those two different fronts that have been sucking away our dollars, that has brought us to where we are now, among other things (again, as Im sure you're aware of). It's a sucky situation, and the demo teams are victims (as well as alot of other things) are getting affected by the mismanagement of Congress and the Pentagon.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
That is nice.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
A VAST majority of the American taxpayers don't give a rat's ass about Airshows and watching a bunch of guys march out to their airplanes and fly circles around in VFR conditions.
It is a military town. I will give you that in towns such as that, yes, other folks will be attracted to see that type of thing, but a VAST majority of Americans don't care.
Air Show attendance records are declining overall. Then 10-12 million over a year isn't that many folks. The 'Sound of Music Live' that aired last Thursday had 18.6 million viewers.
My anecdotal evidence is as valid as yours.