Air Safety Panel Releasing Report on Automation

Autothrust Blue said:
Fair 'nuff. But if it's CAVU, you'd better have a good reason.
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Such as you are doing IOE on a brand new student, dispatch/MX Control is trying to get another leg or two out of the MEL and you have a more restrictive interpretation of the MEL wording, etc.
 
Remember, the autopilot is only going to do what you tell it to do, so even using automation has risks. I've seen numerous occasions when something in the FMC was not programmed correctly and engaging the autopilot made for some interesting moments. It frustrates me when new guys come on line out of training thinking that when they push VNAV and LNAV, all will be fine. "Thats what I was taught in training" is a familiar phrase these days. Grrrrr.

The bigger issue to me is being able to fully understand the automation and use it as a tool. Don't get caught relying on wisdom it doesn't possess.

Hand flying has its place and should be practiced when practical. It is a balance.... Don't overload your PM in high workload environments, but when it makes sense, turn the autopilots off, or take it one step further and turn the FDs off. We should all be able to comfortably fly a visual approach or in most conditions without FDs without added risk...

Don't forget you have passengers.... be smooth. We should be prepared to fly in any mode of operation at any time. If you're not comfortable doing that, a little practice now and then in your "less than comfy mode" wouldn't be a bad thing.
 
mastermags said:
This thread is hilarious. Is there really no middle ground on this? What happens if your AP is deferred? CX the flight?
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Personally, I've never seen an autopilot deferred at my carrier. If it's broken, they fix it. The only exception would probably be a repo flight. Autothrottles might be deferred rarely, but again, I've never seen it personally.

If the FMC is down, the airplane is grounded. No MEL. It's not designed to be flown without the electronics. I love this airplane.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Personally, I've never seen an autopilot deferred at my carrier. If it's broken, they fix it. The only exception would probably be a repo flight. Autothrottles might be deferred rarely, but again, I've never seen it personally.

If the FMC is down, the airplane is grounded. No MEL. It's not designed to be flown without the electronics. I love this airplane.
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Fair enough. At my carrier we see it fairly often.

How's this for a scenario.... One time on a flight from ATL-SYR we take off on the assigned RNAV DP, hit 600' AGL and the PF calls for 'Autopilot on.' I hit the AP button and it falls out.... completely on the floor. If this happened to you at your carrier, what would you do?
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Personally, I've never seen an autopilot deferred at my carrier. If it's broken, they fix it.
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Many many years ago as a new FO on the 757, we were dispatched from Newark to SFO with no autopilot...not one of the three worked. I looked it up and was surprised to discover that it was legal. The captain just laughed and said "ain't happening."
I was a little worried that it was legal and we were getting some heat from the big shots around to get going. After almost a one hour standoff, the local mechanics found the parts to fix it in the belly...seems they were going to have us hand fly the airplane for 6 hours so it could be fixed on the overnight in SFO. It was fixed in 30 minutes once they figured it out that the captain wouldn't budge.

I learned a lot that day about doing what's right, not what's legal.
 
mastermags said:
Fair enough. At my carrier we see it fairly often.

How's this for a scenario.... One time on a flight from ATL-SYR we take off on the assigned RNAV DP, hit 600' AGL and the PF calls for 'Autopilot on.' I hit the AP button and it falls out.... completely on the floor. If this happened to you at your carrier, what would you do?
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h8D60D0D0
 
CaptBill said:
Many many years ago as a new FO on the 757, we were dispatched from Newark to SFO with no autopilot...not one of the three worked. I looked it up and was surprised to discover that it was legal. The captain just laughed and said "ain't happening."
I was a little worried that it was legal and we were getting some heat from the big shots around to get going. After almost a one hour standoff, the local mechanics found the parts to fix it in the belly...seems they were going to have us hand fly the airplane for 6 hours so it could be fixed on the overnight in SFO. It was fixed in 30 minutes once they figured it out that the captain wouldn't budge.

I learned a lot that day about doing what's right, not what's legal.
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Best post of the thread.
 
mastermags said:
How's this for a scenario.... One time on a flight from ATL-SYR we take off on the assigned RNAV DP, hit 600' AGL and the PF calls for 'Autopilot on.' I hit the AP button and it falls out.... completely on the floor. If this happened to you at your carrier, what would you do?
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Hand fly the DP and tell the PNF to let ATC know that we're dealing with an automation issue. Covers my ass if the FAA wants to complain that I'm 0.1 miles off the course.
 
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