SWA Landing gear collapse at LGA

Derg said:
Might be something interesting to data mine at the airlines. Who is on a inordinate number of "No Fly Lists" and why?
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I have 2 on mine, and one isnt even on my current airplane. And no, it isnt @Derg although as soon as he is a captain he might be ;)

The one will never get off my list and I will never, under any circumstance, up to and including quiting, will I ever get in a cockpit with him. I hear he is on more than 1/3 of the SEA FO list.
 
Jimflyfast said:
I have 2 on mine, and one isnt even on my current airplane. And no, it isnt @Derg although as soon as he is a captain he might be ;)

The one will never get off my list and I will never, under any circumstance, up to and including quiting, will I ever get in a cockpit with him. I hear he is on more than 1/3 of the SEA FO list.
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@Cav and I should have a common one on our no-fly list, but having a number of years with the company, I cherish the day when I can say, "That's good, (blank), but how about I walk off the aircraft and you can talk to crew scheduling and the chief pilot about why you're short one FO. I'll send you a copy of my COR. KTHXBAI"
 
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Derg said:
@Cav and I should have a common one on our no-fly list, but having a number of years with the company, I cherish the day when I can say, "That's good, (blank), but how about I walk off the aircraft and you can talk to crew scheduling and the chief pilot about why you're short one FO. I'll send you a copy of my COR. KTHXBAI"
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I only played that card once, and the funny thing was the CP called me to apologize that I had to do that.
 
BobDDuck said:
I only played that card once, and the funny thing was the CP called me to apologize that I had to do that.
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I had to play that card in a foreign country once because someone was making a terrible decision egged on and "approved" by someone who had no business, or authority, to dispatch the aircraft and was insistent that "we're going".

Knock yourself out, Sparky!
 
Derg said:
I had to play that card in a foreign country once because someone was making a terrible decision egged on and "approved" by someone who had no business, or authority, to dispatch the aircraft and was insistent that "we're going".

Knock yourself out, Sparky!
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I did it because the guy was an ass (which we can TOTALLY say on here!) and was known for asking questions pertaining to sexual position preference, retirement planning, political/religious views and food choices. The reason I bounced though had more to do with the fact that he couldn't fly the plane than any of those things though.
 
BobDDuck said:
I did it because the guy was an ass (which we can TOTALLY say on here!) and was known for asking questions pertaining to sexual position preference, retirement planning, political/religious views and food choices. The reason I bounced though had more to do with the fact that he couldn't fly the plane than any of those things though.
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It's good your company backed you, as opposed to someone else I know (no, not I) that had a problem with a captain and the company tap-danced, shrugged and refused to do anything about it even though he was a known problem.

Why some people can have a questionable sick call and get suspended while others spread their assiness/assitude openly and often get away scot-free. And this isn't a union shop that I'm talking about.
 
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Derg said:
It's good your company backed you, as opposed to someone else I know (no, not I) that had a problem with a captain and the company tap-danced, shrugged and refused to do anything about it even though he was a known problem.

Why some people can have a questionable sick call and get suspended while others spread their assness openly and often get away scot-free. And this isn't a union shop that I'm talking about.
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The company (well, the CP) backed me because the pilot in question a) wasn't actually on our seniority list (ah, the long forgotten joys of a Jets4Jobs program) and b) was a known quantity. I was not the first, nor was I the last FO to take my ball and go home after flying a leg or two with him.

I always wondered about the inequitably of treatment of various pilots until I started working on the ALPA grievance committee. About 10% of the pilots cause 90% of the problems. Most times they are in the wrong and just being difficult for the sake of being difficult. Those are the guys though that are always being asked to present a doctors note or getting denied their trade requests. They mostly did it to themselves.Those of us that "got away" with things (and I certainly fell in to that category at times) generally never caused problems, were respectful to management when we did have to talk to them and were mostly well liked by the rest of the pilot group. Even in a "small" pilot group of 600 it's pretty easy to disappear when you don't make any waves.
 
Derg said:
I had to play that card in a foreign country once because someone was making a terrible decision egged on and "approved" by someone who had no business, or authority, to dispatch the aircraft and was insistent that "we're going".

Knock yourself out, Sparky!
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SVO?
 
BobDDuck said:
I did it because the guy was an ass (which we can TOTALLY say on here!) and was known for asking questions pertaining to sexual position preference, retirement planning, political/religious views and food choices. The reason I bounced though had more to do with the fact that he couldn't fly the plane than any of those things though.
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That's my biggest peeve lately.

I can put up with all kinds of crazy. Just turn the volume down, stare out the window, and just kind of goosfraba until the end of the trip.

But when somebody can't do their job to at least the minimum standard...screw that. This job really isn't that difficult most of the time. An error here and there is understandable. But there really is no excuse for sucking at it all the time.
 
Derg said:
It's good your company backed you, as opposed to someone else I know (no, not I) that had a problem with a captain and the company tap-danced, shrugged and refused to do anything about it even though he was a known problem.

Why some people can have a questionable sick call and get suspended while others spread their assiness/assitude openly and often get away scot-free. And this isn't a union shop that I'm talking about.
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"Screw you guys, I'm going home."
 
Screaming_Emu said:
That's my biggest peeve lately.

I can put up with all kinds of crazy. Just turn the volume down, stare out the window, and just kind of goosfraba until the end of the trip.

But when somebody can't do their job to at least the minimum standard...screw that. This job really isn't that difficult most of the time. An error here and there is understandable. But there really is no excuse for sucking at it all the time.
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My standard for determining how bad a guy is at his job is how he responds to poor performance. Everybody has bad days, and everybody has bad trips. If somebody drills it in multiple times, and says, "I'm really sorry, I'm flying like a bag of crap, and I'm trying to fix things," I understand.

But when a guy drills it in multiple times and starts making excuses about how the approach controller hosed him on a vector 20 minutes ago, which resulted in a terrible landing, then it becomes clear to me that they ALWAYS suck.
 
Stuff like this is why I suggest that FOs have to be willing to assert themselves, especially when so many folks just roll over these days. So long as it's understood that you're challenging the decision or course of action, not the Captain.

Word is we have a few skippers here at the Beagle who have had the controls taken away... for good reason... over the years. The FO was alleged to have had to play CFI. These stories are mostly crew room rumors, but hey...

So this sort of begs the question- we've all had the drawn out threads about when you object and how- and you don't fight over the controls. So what do you do if the Captain is plowing it in? Or takes it from you and does something stupid? Or maybe you're the skipper and the FO is being an obstinate bag of hammers?
 
jtrain609 said:
My standard for determining how bad a guy is at his job is how he responds to poor performance. Everybody has bad days, and everybody has bad trips. If somebody drills it in multiple times, and says, "I'm really sorry, I'm flying like a bag of crap, and I'm trying to fix things," I understand.

But when a guy drills it in multiple times and starts making excuses about how the approach controller hosed him on a vector 20 minutes ago, which resulted in a terrible landing, then it becomes clear to me that they ALWAYS suck.
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Oh yeah. I'm very much an intentions focused person. If they're at least trying and have a good attitude, it's no big deal. But when it's out of laziness or dumbassery...
 
jtrain609 said:
My standard for determining how bad a guy is at his job is how he responds to poor performance. Everybody has bad days, and everybody has bad trips. If somebody drills it in multiple times, and says, "I'm really sorry, I'm flying like a bag of crap, and I'm trying to fix things," I understand.

But when a guy drills it in multiple times and starts making excuses about how the approach controller hosed him on a vector 20 minutes ago, which resulted in a terrible landing, then it becomes clear to me that they ALWAYS suck.
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Regarding drilling it in: Who cares?
(1) was it in the touchdown zone, at an appropriate sink rate, on the mains, on speed, and on centerline?
(2) is the aircraft usable again without maintenance action? ;) :D

Slightly sarcastic. Actually very. But I see your point. I have bad trips- usually they're after an insufficient number of days off between work blocks.

AFIS LINK ACK
 
Firebird2XC said:
Word is we have a few skippers here at the Beagle who have had the controls taken away... for good reason... over the years. The FO was alleged to have had to play CFI. These stories are mostly crew room rumors, but hey...
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I flew with a notorious Eagle CA (who shall remain nameless, but let's just say he thought age rules didn't apply to him) on an epic 3-day repo extravaganza a few months off of IOE. I had thought of captains--especially senior ones--as infallible until that point (I think it was a somewhat cultural thing in SJU), so the trip was *really* eye-opening.
 
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