First officer training program?

T

Treblesum81

Well-Known Member
Up until recently, the part 135 carrier that my flight school here in Denver is associated with offered what they called a first officer training program, wherein you could pay them between $10K and $25K and they would have you fly right seat on their operations to collect up to 250 hours of multi-turbine time. I had always planned on doing this program once I'd finished my commercial and multi-engine ratings in the hopes that the extra hours would bolster my resume and make it a little easier to find employment. Unfortunately, that carrier recently changed over to a part 121 operation which means they had to close down the program. I'm wondering if something like this still exists out there that I can use and if so, where can I find more information about it?

Thanks,
Greg

PS: On a side note, I'm curious if I might be barking up the wrong tree with this one. I never knew anyone who had gone through this program while it was still being offered, so I'm not sure just how much of a boost it really gives when it comes to finding a job. Are programs like these, if any still exist, worth the money / time when it comes to helping advance my career?
 
Go spend your hard-earned money on a CFI/CFII/MEI, and go teach. I'll be very blunt: You'll lose a lot of respect in this industry for going to a "pay to play" operator to build right seat time. It provides you very little benefit, and (even if it's not true) it implies to your peers and future employers that you're only willing to take the path of least resistance.

Please reconsider. :)
 
I already don't like you Greg:smoke:, but seriously dude go get your CFI. Unless you're very rich, in which case you need to go big or go home. Try one of the programs in Europe where you can buy 500 hours in an Airbus or Boeing. If you go into a ridiculous amount of debt just to sit right seat on a crap salary so that you can tell yourself "there I made it", I think it's a bad decision.
 
Let's go ahead and lock this thread before it gets out of hand. To the OP: the search function is your friend. It would be wise to look up the many postings about this operator you speak of.
 
tiredcfi said:
Let's go ahead and lock this thread before it gets out of hand. To the OP: the search function is your friend. It would be wise to look up the many postings about this operator you speak of.
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I did search before posting, with no relevant results, hence the question in the first place. I guess I'm not understanding the animosity, especially since not everyone is cut out to be a CFI. I should also point out that I am almost 32 years old, which, when taken conjunction with the upcoming increase in minimum hours for flying a passenger airliner, means that I would probably not qualify for an airline career before I'm 37 years old if I were to spend another year or so getting my CFI, CFII, MEI and then another 4 at minimum to collect the requisite 1200 hours from where I am now. On another note, these programs can't really have the significantly negative impact on career prospects that seem you seem to be implying, or else no one would ever participate in them and they wouldn't exist. Ultimately, I am not going to shy away from the idea that I'm considering the path of least resistance, especially because I have an available time issue before forced retirement (real or perceived), but I really have trouble believing that the only option I have available is to whittle away more years of my life collecting instructor ratings and then instruction hours. That all being said, I'm fully aware that on a purely quality level, instruction hours are much better than training hours, but I feel that potentially wasting another 5 years of my future career just so I can collect enough instruction hours to be able to pursue an airline career is possibly more than I'm willing to do. I'm not saying I'm attached to the idea of participating in one of these programs, but I am definitely leaning in that direction unless someone can present an alternative that does not entail instructing for time since I've never had any intention of becoming an instructor and am not one of those who is not cut out for it.
 
Treblesum81 said:
I did search before posting, with no relevant results, hence the question in the first place. I guess I'm not understanding the animosity, especially since not everyone is cut out to be a CFI. I should also point out that I am almost 32 years old, which, when taken conjunction with the upcoming increase in minimum hours for flying a passenger airliner, means that I would probably not qualify for an airline career before I'm 37 years old if I were to spend another year or so getting my CFI, CFII, MEI and then another 4 at minimum to collect the requisite 1200 hours from where I am now. On another note, these programs can't really have the significantly negative impact on career prospects that seem you seem to be implying, or else no one would ever participate in them and they wouldn't exist. Ultimately, I am not going to shy away from the idea that I'm considering the path of least resistance, especially because I have an available time issue before forced retirement (real or perceived), but I really have trouble believing that the only option I have available is to whittle away more years of my life collecting instructor ratings and then instruction hours. That all being said, I'm fully aware that on a purely quality level, instruction hours are much better than training hours, but I feel that potentially wasting another 5 years of my future career just so I can collect enough instruction hours to be able to pursue an airline career is possibly more than I'm willing to do. I'm not saying I'm attached to the idea of participating in one of these programs, but I am definitely leaning in that direction unless someone can present an alternative that does not entail instructing for time since I've never had any intention of becoming an instructor and am not one of those who is not cut out for it.
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without instructor ratings your resume is going to the bottom of the pile beneath all the ones who have them
 
Skåning said:
Why didnt you mention the name in your original post? Almost like you were ashamed or trying to hide something.
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I didn't think it was all that important because they aren't an option anymore anyway... I know Key Lime isn't the cream of the crop, but I'm not ashamed that I was thinking about going there at all.
 
Inverted25 said:
without instructor ratings your resume is going to the bottom of the pile beneath all the ones who have them
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Perhaps, or perhaps not. It may be that I have to go and get an instructor rating anyway, but I still don't plan on using it. Again, I'm not cut out to be an instructor, and I certainly won't believe for a second that I'm the only pilot in the world who isn't. I also know plenty of pilots who have never been instructors and have been flying for many years, so unless they all just got lucky, it can't be that much of a hinderance to a career in aviation.
 
Even if you do it your way and pay for 250 hours of multi turbine time.....now you're what? 550 hours with some turbine time? Where are you going with that? Below 135 min, below 121 min and a nice chunk of debt....

Doesn't seem like a good plan. If you're just all about fast track, forget the Key Lime play. Go pay to sit right seat in some third world 320 or 737. Still a bad move though....
 
Treblesum81 said:
Perhaps, or perhaps not. It may be that I have to go and get an instructor rating anyway, but I still don't plan on using it. Again, I'm not cut out to be an instructor, and I certainly won't believe for a second that I'm the only pilot in the world who isn't. I also know plenty of pilots who have never been instructors and have been flying for many years, so unless they all just got lucky, it can't be that much of a hinderance to a career in aviation.
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Why do you feel you are not cut out for instruction?
 
Treblesum81 said:
I didn't think it was all that important because they aren't an option anymore anyway... I know Key Lime isn't the cream of the crop, but I'm not ashamed that I was thinking about going there at all.
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Look at Sierra West and IBC Airways, they've both been known to hire guys with just a Commercial. Pay is low but it beats paying to fly.

Aerial Survey, pictometry, banner towing, pipeline patrol, crop dusting, ferrying aircraft (for hire) are all viable options besides flight instructing...

And if you don't like to do those things? Then your probably in the wrong line of work... flying a 10,495 lb turboprop, 48,500 lb radial, or 49,823lb turbo-jet (size of a/c I've flown) while different doesn't give you any more magic or gerth between your legs. Fun? Sure at time, but tiring and it wears off. No matter how cool it looks observing from the ground. I miss my instructing and ferrying days sometimes, all flying becomes routine.

Good Luck and pleeeeaasssee don't pay for a job! :D
 
Treblesum81 said:
Perhaps, or perhaps not. It may be that I have to go and get an instructor rating anyway, but I still don't plan on using it. Again, I'm not cut out to be an instructor, and I certainly won't believe for a second that I'm the only pilot in the world who isn't. I also know plenty of pilots who have never been instructors and have been flying for many years, so unless they all just got lucky, it can't be that much of a hinderance to a career in aviation.
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Are you sure you are not cut out to be a CFI or you don't want to put in the time to be a better pilot? ( even if you do not teach you become more well rounded from the training) It seems you want short cuts because your age, if you feel like it is too late and you do not want to do it the right way then Spend away spendy, but I would rather spend the money on the CFIs because there is no way your going to meet 121 mins after your quality " sit in that seat and shut up" time you paid for. After that is done what will you do fly banners or jumpers? Not necessarily the flight time airlines are looking for. Good luck and please fly friendly
 
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