And AMR Management doesn't expect guys to jump ship or call in sick?

ClearedForOption said:
Everyone - please take note. From the top all the way down - this is why we as a group will eat our young, shoot ourselves in the foot, why whipsaw works, why pilot groups are not united, and everything else you can think of.
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This is also why everyone, but especially pilots, ought to learn conservative financial planning and live well within their means very early in life. I can't wait for the day when I go to work to keep from getting bored, rather than because I have to earn a paycheck. It's a wonderful feeling to be able to say, "Nah, I'm walking away," to an employer who doesn't treat you the way you ought to be treated. I don't see any reason why I can't reach such a point by the time I'm 50, 22 years from now.

Live like no one else today, so you can live like no one else tomorrow....in other words, work hard, save, invest, and spend frugally today so you can be independently wealthy in the future.
 
I don't think I'll ever be an airline pilot... this profession has gone to the dogs. I don't honestly know how management can get away with something like that.
 
jrh said:
This is also why everyone, but especially pilots, ought to learn conservative financial planning and live well within their means very early in life. I can't wait for the day when I go to work to keep from getting bored, rather than because I have to earn a paycheck. It's a wonderful feeling to be able to say, "Nah, I'm walking away," to an employer who doesn't treat you the way you ought to be treated. I don't see any reason why I can't reach such a point by the time I'm 50, 22 years from now.

Live like no one else today, so you can live like no one else tomorrow....in other words, work hard, save, invest, and spend frugally today so you can be independently wealthy in the future.
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Yes! Why more people don't live by that, I don't know. Some of my coworkers are "suffering" because they don't have that raise they want "better contract". I'm like, what, did you squander the money already?
 
It's not a win unless it results in a deal that is better for the pilots than the TA. And that, I would imagine, is something that is never going to happen at this point.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
It's not a win unless it results in a deal that is better for the pilots than the TA. And that, I would imagine, is something that is never going to happen at this point.
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I would bet that whatever comes out is somewhere between the TA and the current situation. Kind of like how SWA did you guys - don't like the first offer, fine - we'll impose a REALLY crappy deal...then come back somewhere just this side of the crappiest deal. Is that your read on this?
 
ATN_Pilot said:
It's not a win unless it results in a deal that is better for the pilots than the TA. And that, I would imagine, is something that is never going to happen at this point.
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I think that depends. AMR is going to have a hard time getting a court injunction like United did in this case, so the trend will continue as long as the pilots keep doing their job (and only their job) the and operation will continue to crumble. The operation will move back towards normal once the pilots feel like they have a fair deal, which as the TA didn't do that, I doubt a deal worse than the TA will.
 
WacoFan said:
I would bet that whatever comes out is somewhere between the TA and the current situation. Kind of like how SWA did you guys - don't like the first offer, fine - we'll impose a REALLY crappy deal...then come back somewhere just this side of the crappiest deal. Is that your read on this?
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Not sure what you mean with the comparison to ATN/SWA, since no deal was ever imposed, but I agree with your conclusion about where this is headed. They had their opportunity at accepting the TA, and now they've had a deal imposed that is far, far worse. The APA has lost their leverage, and management is in the driver's seat. They'll almost certainly propose something worse than the TA, but better than the imposed terms. The APA will have no choice but to accept it, because their leverage is nonexistent at this point.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
It's not a win unless it results in a deal that is better for the pilots than the TA. And that, I would imagine, is something that is never going to happen at this point.
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How does the APA not have the leverage? They are asking the pilot group to come back to the table. They have all the pressure, since they chose to continue operations with a voided pilot contract.
 
Rage Against The Machine said:
How does the APA not have the leverage? They are asking the pilot group to come back to the table. They have all the pressure, since they chose to continue operations with a voided pilot contract.
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Yes, they're asking the pilot group to come back to the table because they know they're in the driver's seat. They know that they can get the APA to come to a consensual agreement that is worse than the original TA, because the APA has no leverage. The company gets what they want (a consensual deal), and the APA still gets screwed. The APA woefully misplayed this entire ordeal.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Yes, they're asking the pilot group to come back to the table because they know they're in the driver's seat. They know that they can get the APA to come to a consensual agreement that is worse than the original TA, because the APA has no leverage. The company gets what they want (a consensual deal), and the APA still gets screwed. The APA woefully misplayed this entire ordeal.
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I'm going to have to disagree, with all the operation disruptions and the the creditors crawling all over Horton's back, they are far from the drivers seat. The APA will not vote for anything worse than the original TA, that is outrageous. Finally a pilot group with the balls to stand up to management and we are telling them they misplayed this? They are in waters most of the pilots in this industry will never be or have never been. With the new APA leadership be assured that they won't pass anything to the pilot group that is GARBAGE.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
The APA has lost their leverage, and management is in the driver's seat. They'll almost certainly propose something worse than the TA, but better than the imposed terms. The APA will have no choice but to accept it, because their leverage is nonexistent at this point.
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That makes absolutely no sense. If they didn't have any leverage, they wouldn't be getting called back to the table right now. The pilots are crippling the operation and will continue to do so until they get a better deal. No way they are going to accept worse than the TA. That's why they voted it down in the first place.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Then they're probably going to be stuck with imposed terms for 10+ years.



Balls are great and all. But brains are better.
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You honestly believe that AMR can handle what is going on(with its operation) for 10+ years?? I think not ..
They couldn't handle 1 month of it, and they have already told the pilot group to come back and negotiate.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Then they're probably going to be stuck with imposed terms for 10+ years.
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I don't think AMR will make it another 10+ years without:

A) Bankruptcy court again
B) A merger
C) Selling off large parts of itself

So trying to get the best terms possible in the short term is probably not a bad strategy.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
It's not a win unless it results in a deal that is better for the pilots than the TA. And that, I would imagine, is something that is never going to happen at this point.
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I would agree.


drunkenbeagle said:
I don't think AMR will make it another 10+ years without:

A) Bankruptcy court again
B) A merger
C) Selling off large parts of itself

So trying to get the best terms possible in the short term is probably not a bad strategy.
Click to expand...
I suspect that you're right, but even a merger would merely make one large, unhappy, non-successful family.
 
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