Cockpit View of Idaho Plane Crash

[z987k]

And if you EVER DO find yourself in a downdraft, good luck doing much about it.

You're right, that came off dickish, but come on! You made my point right there. If I ever find myself in a downdraft... lol.

Honestly though I don't need to know anything about you or the type of flying you do. You can't make a statement like that and have anyone believe you know what you're talking about.

 

[ryan1234]

Not sure if any of you guys are familiar with the Franklin in those Stinsons... but they were really designed to run on 80/87 and have some unusual size plugs. At Full Rich, 6000'+, and 100LL, the plugs could have easily fouled... maybe a contributing cause I don't know... just something to think about.

 

[WacoFan]

Not sure if any of you guys are familiar with the Franklin in those Stinsons... but they were really designed to run on 80/87 and have some unusual size plugs. At Full Rich, 6000'+, and 100LL, the plugs could have easily fouled... maybe a contributing cause I don't know... just something to think about.

Franklin is actually a really good motor and they are smooth running engines. Flown behind them in 108's, a Bellanca and a Maul. Nice engines - parts are getting hard to find I think.

 

[TwoTwoLeft]

The guy never had a way out because he never had a plan going into it in the first place...

 

[pullup]

Why the difference in survivability between flying into the trees vs dropping into them?

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

Why the difference in survivability between flying into the trees vs dropping into them?

Airplane sheds more energy with parts coming off going forward thru the trees versus bouncing straight down thru them, I would imagine.

 

[pullup]

Airplane sheds more energy with parts coming off going forward thru the trees versus bouncing straight down thru them, I would imagine.

Ok, makes some sense. Thanks.

 

[Cheyenne]

Why the difference in survivability between flying into the trees vs dropping into them?

What KSCessnaDriver said and that you are under control right up to the end. You can dodge the big trees on the way in. Anyway, I'm a pilot and like the idea of having some say in when/where/how I hit something. Stall it in (or pull the chute) and you're just a passenger sitting there hoping things work out. You can hit a lot of stuff under control and live through it. Plus the human body can withstand many, many more times the G-forces head on than it can straight down. (thats why people live through head on collisions in a car yet they die when they fall off an 8' ladder.)

 

[T/O w/FSII]

Plus the human body can withstand many, many more times the G-forces head on than it can straight down. (thats why people live through head on collisions in a car yet they die when they fall off an 8' ladder.)

I dont think you quite understand how physics work.

 

[tlewis95]

What KSCessnaDriver said and that you are under control right up to the end. You can dodge the big trees on the way in. Anyway, I'm a pilot and like the idea of having some say in when/where/how I hit something. Stall it in (or pull the chute) and you're just a passenger sitting there hoping things work out. You can hit a lot of stuff under control and live through it. Plus the human body can withstand many, many more times the G-forces head on than it can straight down. (thats why people live through head on collisions in a car yet they die when they fall off an 8' ladder.)

"fly the thing as far into the crash as possible" - R.A. Hoover

 

[inigo88]

I can't imagine any way to give this guy the benefit of the doubt. I can't think of anything. The freaking airplane tried to tell him not to fly (by sinking back to the runway) and it wasn't enough of a hint. I think that's what my grandpa meant when he said to "listen to what the airplane is telling you". Clearly, the airplane was saying "Hey, dumb ass, let's not fly today. Let's go back to the hanger and sit in the shade and drink beer".

A thousand times this. When I got my tailwheel endorsement I asked my CFI what the Vr rotation speed was after lifting the tail for a two-point takeoff. His answer was "You pull back on the stick when she tells you she's ready to fly." And by golly he was right. Then when I went back to flying nose draggers, I realized the same idea had applied to them too all along.

I couldn't keep watching the video after the first bounce. It was like watching a train wreck in slow motion. I'm glad no one was killed. A couple of rules of thumb I discovered after I nearly did the same thing about 6 years ago.

100hp per person in the mountains. No exceptions. If you can't take what you need due to this rule, don't go.

Always walk the field and know the terrain. That's what saved me.

*my near accident was due to high winds aloft interacting with terrain near the departure end of the runway. It wasn't evident on landing.

I found myself in a similar situation years ago as a newly rated pilot, which made the video especially hard to watch. I was with a commercially rated friend leaving a 1500 ft strip in the hills on a hot afternoon. Our aircraft was an early sixties C172, the kind with the 6-cylinder continental that only produces 145 hp. I had run the takeoff performance numbers in the book several times just to be sure, and it was close but do-able. Long story short the engine didn't perform as the book advertised. About 3/4 of the way down the runway the airspeed indicator finally came alive. Our short field takeoff turned into a "soft-field" takeoff technique just to get the wheels off the runway before the pavement ended. We were fortunate that there was a grass runway which extended several thousand feet past the end of the pavement, which provided ample room to build up flying speed in ground effect and climb normally (or put it back on the ground if had airspeed not continued to increase). Everything worked out. That video is a solemn reminder of what would have happened if everything didn't work out.

Needless to say, from then on I included a safety factor in performance calculations - to give some room between the idealized "in a perfect world" numbers in the POH vs. what you might see in real life (given all the factors the book might not be able to account for). I didn't mean to offend RICHARD5 earlier, but this incident is also why I approach older engines with a healthy dose of skepticism (at least before I get to know them and can tell how close the numbers are to what they should be on paper). Finally like rframe said, have a plan for what conditions must be satisfied and when in order to continue, and give yourself various stages of "outs" for an abort if they aren't.

 

[Murdoughnut]

Not many people have the luxury of several miles of extended centerline. I mean did he really think things would get better once he reached the trees, or the mountains after that?

 

[fholbert]

Picture taken just before accident.

Picture taken moments later.

 

[Ajax]

They showed it this morning on Good Morning America and interviewed the pilot, two passengers, and one of the rescuers. The interviews them self had no substance whatsoever, with the anchor complimenting the pilots performance.

 

[WacoFan]

They showed it this morning on Good Morning America and interviewed the pilot, two passengers, and one of the rescuers. The interviews them self had no substance whatsoever, with the anchor complimenting the pilots performance.

I agree - he's a regular Al Haynes, Sully and Bob Hoover all rolled into one.

 

[Houston]

Why the difference in survivability between flying into the trees vs dropping into them?

I have a friend who is a DPE for LTA. He was telling me about how soft the tops of trees are. Personally, I'll just take his word for it instead of checking it out for myself.

 

[Ajax]

I agree - he's a regular Al Haynes, Sully and Bob Hoover all rolled into one.

I see what you did there

 

[Houston]

There are a lot of "take away lessons" from this video, but let me add one I didn't see mentioned.

If there is ever a time when the pilot isn't absolutely, positively certain the aircraft is going to perform with lots of room to spare, ....... don't make the takeoff with the passengers in the airplane. Come up with a Plan B. Make a takeoff solo and if there is lots and lots of spare performance, come back and get one and fly him out and come back for the rest later. Wait until the temperature drops. Ask someone to put the folks in their truck and drive them over to that bigger airport ten miles away and meet you there while you fly solo to that airport. Something, anything but loading the whole gang into the aircraft and departing with the thought that "this will probably work okay".

 

[rframe]

The interviews them self had no substance whatsoever, with the anchor complimenting the pilots performance.

I'd compliment him too. "Sir, that was an absolutely outstanding job at cramming as many bad choices as possible into 3 minutes of flight, I dont know how you can be so incredibly good at being incompetent, but you did it...so here's your trophy!".

What kind of a DB would actually go on TV after doing something so stupid?

 

[SteveCostello]

Picture taken just before accident. {clip} Picture taken moments later. {clip}

What a crying shame to see such a sturdy, reliable friend like that Stinson turned into an origami of scrap metal over something so incredibly preventable.

I love when news anchors interview people about topics they know nothing about. The only thing that pilot could possibly be praised for is not spinning the aircraft into the ground in an attempt to turn away from the trees, or straight up stalling it in. That. Is. It. There is nothing else redeemable about his complete lack of performance. I hate to vilify the guy, but when the evidence speaks for itself, it's kinda hard not to. I didn't see the interview... I'm hoping there was no more talk of downdrafts or any crap like that.

The guy is being held up as a hero. He should be going on trial.