Pinacolaba SLI

bloch is simply waiting until everyone forgets about it, he sneaks it on someones desk when theyre not looking and then he rides off into the sunset laughing all the way to the bank
 
Tram said:
Joe, take it however you want to take it. You know what I meant. At least a haymaker is better than the below the belt underhanded garbage that is being slung around.

You almost have to disagree with me though, you "liked" his post, which is confusing considering where you started your regional career. That's not a dig on Colgan, but Walt is trying to make a point based on pay related to damage to the industry. What were you making at 9L, or were those payrates acceptable simply because you were not flying a shiny regional jet, like Walter?
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I'm starting to not like this "like" button. I do like his tone and the broadsides laid at CC's feet. Are his comments, like cannon balls, ripping through all Pinnacle pilots? I don't think so. Is it ripping through you? I don't think so, hell, you more than anyone is actively trying to exit this airline stuff and onto better things. Hopefully I'll make the transition too someday, I'd like it to be with the little company I started.

It always seems like with you and me it's a question of "you know what I meant". Someday I'll get your internet tone better figured out, and were it not for the both of you hugging it out comment I probably would have gone to PM. But let's face it, you two are like having two Perry Cox's running around (Scrubs) only Walt doesn't come in all that often and I love it when he does.

Colgan: I made $20 an hour, no per diem unless I picked up out of base open time (and I did lots of that). Something on the order of 130-155 hours of credit with 3-6 days off a month in the summer. I think I made 23k my first year, flew 991 block in 10 month with 2 months of training, and I don't know how much credit. As for why I went to work there, I remember myself saying out loud a few times with people there, "I want no part of a union company". Darkly funny now. In my defense I was used to the Pratt and Whitney assembly lines, Rockwell Collins, Hamilton Sundstrand, GE and Honeywell Canada and US, so on and so on. I didn't like dealing with them and that colored my view of all unions. Did I mention how young and stupid I was? A good guy gave me the lead into Colgan and I took it. He has since quit because he couldn't deal with the company anymore.

Colgan was a nice place to work I thought (all four months of being there), before Pinnacle and Buddy Casey came in. Can't say I was wild about being a whipsaw, my perspective was changing month to month anyways as I learned more about unions, pilots, and whipsaws. Gotta say watching my colleges get nailed to a cross every time they called in sick, or couldn't fix all of scheduling's self made woes wasn't terribly soothing to my concerns, and oh yeah, we voted no to a union collectively. What's that? We are going from 16-18 days off and 85 hours to 65 hours and 10 days off? 14 hour duty days every day? Oh awesome! I'm sure you've heard it all before. It seemed to me like Colgan was the merry-go-round from hell, and everyone was sure the ride would end soon you just had to keep holding on and pretending like it didn't all suck ass.

Tram said:
Everyone at the regional level is part of the "problem." All the God's gift to aviation Mesaba boys included.
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Hehe. You'll forgive us for not having such a dim view of ourselves. I know you have no patience anymore with the airlines, I get it. Things can turn around here at Pinnacolaba.

Us all being at the regional level isn't the problem. I honestly don't believe anymore that mainline will take back the flying. I get the feeling 76 seaters are here to stay and now it's just a question for pilots at the mainline level of what is the scope worth in dollars. May I be wrong, I hope I'm wrong. Scope will continue to be sold off bit by bit, we're just going to have to make due. Having a union and a contract is the long term answer in my opinion.

Tram said:
It's really pretty funny how condescending you guys want to be, then you suggest hugs. Your obvious attitude towards 9E masked with "hugs" talk is starting to make my stomach hurt. It reminds me of a good friend of mine in college who loved to fight. He'd talk trash until it got to a point where guys decide to shake and let bygones be bygones and as his "opponent" would reach to shake Dave would reach out with his right hand to shake only to help pull the guy into the wicked left hook that was already on the way to dudes face. Those who knew Dave, knew better. I'm starting to know better.
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Nah I'm not Dave, the only guy I knew like that was a big time jock and loved hurting people. I prefer to think that rational people can disagree, and while I may not be a fan of Pinnacle Corp or a few of the Pinnacle pilots, but I don't think you are all the same either. Walt has never come across to me as a pugnacious person on the webs, but he'll call people out when they step out of line, he's fun to read.

Look I'm a reader. I love to read, I love words. I re-read 1984 once a year so I even love reading the same thing time and time again. You and Walt are fun to read. I think you're not sure what to make out of Walt sometimes, I don't think one label will stick on him or me.

Tram said:
Sure, hugs if that's what you need, just stop asking for hugs and thrn snickering while punching us in the kidneys during the kumbaya moment.

Until you guys realize we are all in this TOGETHER, management is going to pit us all against each other. You guys make whipsaws easy.

Welcome to the family.
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Maybe I should ask this of you, why is picking on CC the same as picking on every Pinnacle pilot? It seems like that's what you want to remind me of. Walt may not be very easy on the eyes (reading), he's direct, impatient, and hurtful at times. He's one of us though, all of us. When it comes to liking Walt over CC I'm going to pick Walt just like I pick you. You are direct, impatient, and hurtful at times too. You wish to call me and others on our BS, which is good to have around. To be clear, you and come at me with this all day long, you just don't seem like an idealist to me, which is what confuses me now. The point I think you are trying to make about CC is an idealistic one, one I don't agree with and I can't tell if that's your true lesson here. And I don't agree that regional, all regionals or just this one, are the problem. This is what we got handed, someday the regionals will be better. Who knows, maybe mainline will take it all back. It's a 30 year career for me I'm not all that worried anymore especially if I can step back or completely away in 5.

Personally I like watching guys like you and Walt light up the fireworks. I don't see why you two have to trade blows like this especially when you are all in the same family now. CC is the touchy feely uncle I just would rather ignore and love to watch be tormented by his older brothers who know he's not quite right in the head.
 
His comments come across as anti-9E pilot.

He doesn't make it personal concerning CC. He makes sweeping blanket statements that cover the group rather than the person.

Kinda like if CC was a minority and I'm a member of that minority, Walt calls CC a racial slur to that minority. It hits more than the individual, it hits the group and it seems like that is his honest sentiment - he lashes at CC and uses it to include the group. I could be wrong.

If you're in the family and you want to make fun of my retarded uncle, that's one thing.

If you're not in the family, you'd better pick your words wisely..

I'd love to meet him one day though, I'm sure it'd be a blast.
 
Tram said:
His comments come across as anti-9E pilot.

He doesn't make it personal concerning CC. He makes sweeping blanket statements that cover the group rather than the person.

Kinda like if CC was a minority and I'm a member of that minority, Walt calls CC a racial slur to that minority. It hits more than the individual, it hits the group and it seems like that is his honest sentiment - he lashes at CC and uses it to include the group. I could be wrong.

If you're in the family and you want to make fun of my retarded uncle, that's one thing.

If you're not in the family, you'd better pick your words wisely..

I'd love to meet him one day though, I'm sure it'd be a blast.
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Lol. We are in the family. Nothing is more clear on that point than when my folks go nonrev or myself.

I'm re-reading the comment again, the one i liked, and the only thing I see blanket wise is talking about Pinnacles old contract, which no one liked. Everything else I read is taking issue with the JetU poster boy's attitude. Also whatever the '07 furlough thing is about. Maybe he's talking about some of our voluntary furloughs but IDK.
 
jynxyjoe said:
I'm re-reading the comment again, the one i liked, and the only thing I see blanket wise is talking about Pinnacles old contract, which no one liked. Everything else I read is taking issue with the JetU poster boy's attitude. Also whatever the '07 furlough thing is about. Maybe he's talking about some of our voluntary furloughs but IDK.
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I have no idea what CC is talking about half the time. I don't really care about the industry as much as he and many of the people here seem to do. I don't know when XJ had furloughs, hired, blah, blah, blah. I don't care about my own airline enough to pay much attention to it when I'm not there.. Lots guys appear to have the "caring about the airline industry" box check on their list of things they enjoy. I don't.

The comment that Walter made that is similar to many of them comments he has made in the past and the one I called a blanket statement is this:

WalterSobchak said:
With that awsome contract you guys had I wonder why any would would leave in the last 10 years?:rolleyes: I mean you are a JET pilot after all. It's nice keeping that constant flow going at the expense of the industry. I bet if I ran a regional and paid nothing people would still come to fly my RJ's. It's all about the PIC and yourself.:sarcasm:
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This applies to anyone who sits in a 9E cockpit. It applies to anyone who ever started at year 1 pay at any regional. It's not a comment directed at a JetU grad, a Gulfstream FO or any of the above. Read it in the context of my racial slur example.

This comment is directed at anyone who flies at the regional level. You, me and Walter included. It is this arrogance and "holier than thou" that I have an issue with.

this is getting way-over-hashed. I'll sum it up.. I made a comment somewhere about "slapping regional pilots who sashay around the airport like they are better than everyone else" and he took offense to it and told me if I slapped him "I'd better be ready to loose my lower jaw." I couldn't help but LOL..

My comment was pointed at a group of people (sashaying airline pilots) and he chose to place himself within that group (maybe subconsciously he is aware of his arrogance, I mean, most stereotypes are funny, because they're based on truth.) Then he went as far as to tell a random person, whom he's never met that he'll rip their jaw off. For all Walter knows, I'm 6'3", 270lbs and have been in more bar fights than he's been in bars. I could just as easily be 5'4", 135 and have a seriously wicked up down left right a b a b combo on Mortal Kombat.

It's pretty arrogant to go around telling random, unknown folks on the internet what you'll do to them physically. It takes a special arrogance in the mind of the poster to do that, IMO. It's that arrogance that he portrays so, well arrogantly, on this message board that I'm tired of reading..

Like I said, I'd love to meet him. I've met quite a few keyboard commando's and all were quite, memorable, experiences.. ;)
 
It's true about Tram. He's wicked at Mortal Kombat. I'd pay to see him rip out someone's spine on the flight deck, though. :)

Instead of "SELCAL! SELCAL!" the ACARS should just yell "FINISH HIM!"
 
Tram said:
This applies to anyone who sits in a 9E cockpit. It applies to anyone who ever started at year 1 pay at any regional. It's not a comment directed at a JetU grad, a Gulfstream FO or any of the above. Read it in the context of my racial slur example.
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kellwolf said:
It's true about Tram. He's wicked at Mortal Kombat. I'd pay to see him rip out someone's spine on the flight deck, though. :)

Instead of "SELCAL! SELCAL!" the ACARS should just yell "FINISH HIM!"
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I swear, Tram is as intense as Dr. Cox from Scrubs. I'm just waiting for him to cross his arms, bare his teeth, give the little swipe to the nose, and glare at me until I pee. Look Tram, I think you're a little over the top, but I respect you feel like you've been insulted. I shoulda kept my trap shut. I apologize for myself and I apologize for Walt, since it'll be about another 1.5 months before he gets back on again.

Luckily I'm Ted. I'm out!

theodore-ted-buckland-esq-73739.jpg
 
jynxyjoe said:
I swear, Tram is as intense as Dr. Cox from Scrubs. I'm just waiting for him to cross his arms, bare his teeth, give the little swipe to the nose, and glare at me until I pee. Look Tram, I think you're a little over the top, but I respect you feel like you've been insulted. I shoulda kept my trap shut. I apologize for myself and I apologize for Walt, since it'll be about another 1.5 months before he gets back on again.
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I'm not insulted. I may be intense. I'm not actually that over the top. I'd put more smileys in my posts, but the last time I did that someone said I was just trying to be a smart alec.. I'm actually a pretty laid back guy, but I guess I don't come across that way in text. :) I'm to the point, to point, no fakin', cookin' MC's like a pound of bacon.

I just don't like guys who think they're better than others, that's all..

CC may be crazy. Walt isn't one iota better than him.

This whole discussion reminds me of this episode. Glad I get to be Dr. Cox. :)

[YT]YfoRCP4UUhY[/YT]
 
At first I was a little pissed, but after reading these I have calmed a bit.

D. Conditions and Restrictions
1. These conditions and restrictions are an integral part of the
ISL and shall remain in full force and effect until their
expiration by their terms.
2. Pilots hired after July 1, 2010 shall be junior to all pilots on
the ISL and shall be listed in order of date of hire consistent
with the Joint Collective Bargaining Agreement (JCBA).
3. Neither the implementation of the ISL nor the
implementation or expiration of a condition and restriction
herein, in and of itself, shall cause the displacement of any
pilot from his or her then-current position (including pilots
who have been awarded positions but had not commenced or
completed training.
4. For a period of five years beginning with submission of the
integrated seniority list, no pre-merger Pinnacle or Colgan
pilot may be awarded or displaced to a CRJ-900 captain
position unless Mesaba pilots maintain 279 CRJ-900 captain
positions, and no pre-merger Mesaba or Colgan pilot may be awarded or displaced to a CRJ-900 captain position unless
Pinnacle pilots maintain 95 CRJ-900 captain positions. In
the event both Mesaba and Pinnacle pilots have less than 279
and 95 CRJ-900 captain positions, respectively, CRJ-900
captain positions shall be awarded on a ratio of 279 Mesaba
pilots to 95 Pinnacle pilots until either Mesaba or Pinnacle
reaches their minimum. Remaining vacant positions will be
awarded in accordance with system seniority.
5. For a period of five years, beginning with the submission of
the integrated seniority list, no pre-merger Pinnacle or
Colgan pilot may be awarded or displaced to a CRJ-200
captain position unless Mesaba pilots maintain 100 CRJ-200
captain positions and no pre-merger Mesaba or Colgan pilot
may be awarded or displaced to a CRJ-200 captain position
unless Pinnacle pilots maintain 541 CRJ-200 captain
positions. In the event both Mesaba and Pinnacle pilots have
less than 100 and 541 CRJ-200 captain positions
respectively, CRJ-200 captain positions shall be awarded on
a ratio of 100 Mesaba pilots to 541 Pinnacle pilots until
either Mesaba or Pinnacle pilots reach their minimum.
Remaining vacant positions will be awarded in accordance
with system seniority under the ISL.
6. For a period of five years beginning with submission of the
integrated seniority list, no pre-merger Pinnacle or Mesaba
pilots may be awarded or displaced to a Q-400 captain
unless Colgan pilots maintain 193 Q-400 captain positions.
7. For a period of five years beginning with the submission of
the Integrated Seniority List, no Pinnacle pilot may be
awarded or displaced to a Saab-340 captain position, and no
pre-merger Colgan pilot may be awarded or displaced to a
Saab-340 captain position unless Mesaba pilots maintain
129 Saab-340 captains. No pre-merger Mesaba pilot may be
awarded or displaced to a Saab-340 captain position unless
Colgan pilots maintain 152 Saab-340 captains. Minimum
captain positions for Mesaba pilots will be permanently
reduced by an equal amount for any reductions in Saab
Captain positions in Minneapolis, Memphis, Detroit and
New York. Minimum captain positions for Colgan pilots will
be permanently reduced by an amount equal to any
reductions in Washington-Dulles, Boston, Charleston and Houston.
8. If there are insufficient bidders for one pre-merger pilot
group for a posted vacancy on one side of the fence during
the five-year period, unfilled vacancies may be filled by pilots
from the other pre-merger airline in seniority order.
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Rocketman99 said:
Nothing really earthshattering with the list and 5 year "fences."
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Anyone wanna share? All the 9E merger guys are flying. The company SAID they'd pull them off day of when the list came out, but if it comes down to canceling a flight or pulling them off a trip, I know the company has denied association leave in the past. The people that are gonna be the most upset if there's a fence: the company. They're banking on the overstaffing at XJ to fix the problem at the other two.....
 
kellwolf said:
Anyone wanna share? All the 9E merger guys are flying. The company SAID they'd pull them off day of when the list came out, but if it comes down to canceling a flight or pulling them off a trip, I know the company has denied association leave in the past. The people that are gonna be the most upset if there's a fence: the company. They're banking on the overstaffing at XJ to fix the problem at the other two.....
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Agree on the share...

Got to give it to the Colgan guys on their communication with their pilot group. Not even a peep from the 9E side of the house.
 
kellwolf said:
Anyone wanna share? All the 9E merger guys are flying. The company SAID they'd pull them off day of when the list came out, but if it comes down to canceling a flight or pulling them off a trip, I know the company has denied association leave in the past. The people that are gonna be the most upset if there's a fence: the company. They're banking on the overstaffing at XJ to fix the problem at the other two.....
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Beer me an email.
 
Rocketman99 said:
Nothing really earthshattering with the list and 5 year "fences."
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Is that how you are are reading it? Essentially NO ONE can move around for 5 years?? When they list the amount of seats, does that mean if the seats grow, then its opened up to everyone?
 
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