Yes, it's that time again... Quickest upgrade?

While it appears that there is going to be significant hiring on the horizon, I think it's a little early in the cycle to be calling early upgrades.

If you want to fly 121, go fly 121, but don't expect a quick upgrade. If it happens, great! If not, don't be disappointed. For any records of feelings of being stuck as a FO, or getting an upgrade out of seniority sequence, just look back at the last two years of postings. Sure, there are going to be attrition based upgrades, and that may wax and wane dependent on hiring cycles. Unlike the last decade, the combination of high attrition and high growth isn't very feasible. There might be one or two airlines out there that really grow, but it's not going to be an industry-wide phenomenon as it was with the RJ. If anything, there will be a fleet-exchange going on, turning in 90's era RJs for the Next-Gen tprops (of 80's lineage - go figure).

I guess it's official: the career ladder of the pre-2000 craziness is back in place.

Everyone back in line....

Good luck

Yeah I agree, plus with the unpredicatability of the industry the "quick upgrade" company of today might be the company that loses its contract tommorrow. Do as much research as you can and pick the company that feels like the best fit for you (schedule, QOL, crew bases, better medical insurance[if you have a family] that sort of thing.)
 
Just think...

After 23 years as a 121 pilot I'm finally upgrading!

What did I do wrong??!!?

:rolleyes:


Kevin

I dunno... Did you go to the Harvard of the Sky? Did you go to a flight school that promises you a super fast airline job? Did you make all the right friends in your unit? If not, maybe that's the problem.

:D

(and congrats on the upgrade. that's awesome.)
 
Just think...

After 23 years as a 121 pilot I'm finally upgrading!

What did I do wrong??!!?

:rolleyes:


Kevin

Uncle Mike and Aunt Pat are proud of your upgrade too! I got to hear about it.

I'll be in town for Bears v. Packers if you're around.
 
Upgrade wouldn't matter if you could actually make a living wage as an FO. I upgraded at 121 mins and before that I was just about going into debt every month with my $19,000 salary. Even my $42,000 salary wasn't really cutting it once they closed my base and I had to commute.

Increase pay to a living wage in tune with other professions and I don't think anyone would have a problem with a long upgrade.
 
Thanks for all the input, guys. This question was supposed to be simply something to throw against the wall and get some feedback from the peanut gallery.

It definitely sends chills up my spine to think about working at a regional that's going to treat me like crap so I can get that quick upgrade or has questionable operations. I honestly don't think I'm capable of that, as indicated by my decision to leave Colgan, because that certainly was a factor. I just couldn't do it and sometimes wish I could've.

I think my focus is going to be on working a job that I enjoy and fits with my life and trying to learn as much as possible while doing it even if it means it'll take me longer to get to the holy land, it's my only option.

Do you by chance have any Senior pilot friends at delta????
 
Uncle Mike and Aunt Pat are proud of your upgrade too! I got to hear about it.

I know, it's so hard to explain it to extended family members who don't quite understand the system:

Them - "You're a Captain now?"

Me - "Well, I have a bid for it but I won't go to school until November or December, and then there's IOE's and a FAA check ride so probably January before it's official..."

Them - "So, you're a Captain now?"

Me - (sigh) "Yes."

LOL!

I'll be in town for Bears v. Packers if you're around.

I should be here, shoot me a PM.


BTW, my wife is going to the RingAroundRosie fund-raiser tomorrow...


Kevin
 
I dunno... Did you go to the Harvard of the Sky? Did you go to a flight school that promises you a super fast airline job? Did you make all the right friends in your unit? If not, maybe that's the problem.

:D

(and congrats on the upgrade. that's awesome.)

It's time for me.

I could have held a (very junior) Captain's seat 6 years ago, but it would have been painful as a commuter.

Life as a relatively senior international F/O is pretty good, and the pay differential between 777 F/O and MD-88/90 Captain averages about $13/hour.

I've been doing international for 11 years. I knew it was time to upgrade when all of the great Captains I've been flying with (99% of the a-holes have retired) were starting to piss me off...

I finally have decent seniority (about 55%) on the Maddog in MSP, so...

Time to go back to work for a living!

Kevin


P.S. The most depressing part of all of this is that my MD-88 Captain payrate is the same as what I was making as a 767ER F/O under contract 2000.
 
Life as a relatively senior international F/O is pretty good, and the pay differential between 777 F/O and MD-88/90 Captain averages about $13/hour.

That was the crazy think I discovered when I upgraded. Same airplane, but going from a line holder FO to a reserve CA resulted in only about $400 more a pay period. Worth it, but kind of odd when you think about it.

Well, enjoy the school house whenever you actually get there.
 
< snip >
I finally have decent seniority (about 55%) on the Maddog in MSP, so...

Time to go back to work for a living!
........


Congrat's, We have great snow plow drivers here at MSP. You will love them.... :)
 
You mean 96 hours of IOE isn't normal? :)

Good lord no.

Passengers should at least have two situationally-engaged pilots rather than dual given on a cross-country! ;)

I've told this story before, but I'll repeat it.

I was called out on reserve one day to do a CVG turn. I was to fly out, then deadhead back. When I arrived, the outbound Captain poked his head in the door and said, "if you're still legal to continue, leave your stuff in the flight deck." I was, so I did.

On the way back, he explained he was a check airman, and the FO he was giving IOE was washing out. 60+ hours and he couldn't master the idea of "if you push the nose down, the airplane goes faster, unless you reduce thrust." He was hostile and resistant to instruction or criticism to the point of belligerent insubordination. His excuse for everything was "I've never flown a jet before."

Company mins for IOE at the time was 25 hours. Most folks managed to get it down in that amount of time.

Some of us could stand to linger in the right seat for a while. If that guy had made it through IOE... would you want him upgrading in, say, 18 months?

My carrier still has an infamously long wait to upgrade- the end result is even our junior captains have been around 10 years or so at least. End result? People know things- and they'll teach you, because they're patient, and not in a rush to leave.

That said, I worked for an 'upgrade mill' place once, too, and the captains I flew with there taught me a lot, too. Mostly that I wasn't so sure that jamming myself into the fastest upgrade I could find, after all.

You know what's wrong with the right seat? The pay. Otherwise, you're flying the same trips, and that's about it. If I was making better money, I could sit right seat in my current airplane the rest of my career and that'd be peachy.
 
Come fly a Caravan for a year.

I say go to Keylime air and try to get yourself in the left seat of the metro. Real respect over there...

I understand casing upgrade time and wish I could do the same. 95% of my time is pic but I have no 121 time and don't think I would be ready to be a street captain or anything. I can't believe you were months away from casing that quick upgrade and quit at colgan. I understand the rules there aren't great but it was upgrade you were after and right now today you could probably be in the left seat not even having this conversation. Sometimes you have to stick it out if that's what you're after, or just deal with the fact that quick upgrade isn't going to happen at a 'good' regional.

:dunno:
 
I say go to Keylime air and try to get yourself in the left seat of the metro. Real respect over there...

I understand casing upgrade time and wish I could do the same. 95% of my time is pic but I have no 121 time and don't think I would be ready to be a street captain or anything. I can't believe you were months away from casing that quick upgrade and quit at colgan. I understand the rules there aren't great but it was upgrade you were after and right now today you could probably be in the left seat not even having this conversation. Sometimes you have to stick it out if that's what you're after, or just deal with the fact that quick upgrade isn't going to happen at a 'good' regional.

:dunno:

Staying there at the time just wasn't an option for me. I'm not going to go into detail about my personal life, but "sticking it out" at an airline that you don't want to be at and is also interfering with your life isn't the safest thing, either. There's people in the back and a buddy next to you and that's the most important thing to remember. Like I said, it was a very difficult decision and obviously, I must've had my reasons.

I felt like the past year and a half of being away from the regionals has been just what I needed and I wouldn't trade it for the world. 5 of the people closest to me got married, I spent lots of time with friends and family, I made the same money that I would've as a captain on the Saab and did a job that I love (yes, I'm one of the few that loves flight instructing), greatly improved my housing situation, quit smoking, got in great shape, and learned how to play some guitar. Not to mention, I got rid of a long-term girlfriend that I needed to get rid of but my life was too hectic when I was at Colgan to realize this.

So, I guess I did go into my personal life a little bit, but you're better of knowing yourself and knowing what you need to do. When things hit the fan isn't the time to realize "hey, maybe I shouldn't have been flying this equipment today"

As for the "respect" at Key Lime, are you being sarcastic or what do you mean...?
 
Staying there at the time just wasn't an option for me. I'm not going to go into detail about my personal life, but "sticking it out" at an airline that you don't want to be at and is also interfering with your life isn't the safest thing, either. There's people in the back and a buddy next to you and that's the most important thing to remember. Like I said, it was a very difficult decision and obviously, I must've had my reasons.

I felt like the past year and a half of being away from the regionals has been just what I needed and I wouldn't trade it for the world. 5 of the people closest to me got married, I spent lots of time with friends and family, I made the same money that I would've as a captain on the Saab and did a job that I love (yes, I'm one of the few that loves flight instructing), greatly improved my housing situation, quit smoking, got in great shape, and learned how to play some guitar. Not to mention, I got rid of a long-term girlfriend that I needed to get rid of but my life was too hectic when I was at Colgan to realize this.

So, I guess I did go into my personal life a little bit, but you're better of knowing yourself and knowing what you need to do. When things hit the fan isn't the time to realize "hey, maybe I shouldn't have been flying this equipment today"

As for the "respect" at Key Lime, are you being sarcastic or what do you mean...?


I was being sarcastic there. You make more instructing probably than those guys at key lime. I know how that life thing can get in the way with aviation. I too have dealt with that. I went to instructing after doing survey for a season and Eagle canceling my class with them in 08'. Instructing wasn't paying the bills so back to living on the road. I got married while I was 'instructing' and have missed my first anniversary and all sorts of things. But things are stable at home, I'm just always gone.

Key Lime, IMHO, is the Colgan of 135 cargo. It's too bad you couldn't stick it out just a little longer to get that upgrade. I feel chasing an upgrade is a pipe dream while looking for a 'good' company. It's all relative to what you can deal with. Good luck with your search but aviation takes time and luck. You can only control time, that is how long you can stay at one company...
 
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