House, Senate pass 1500 rule, Rest rules, and more
- Thread starter Firebird2XC
- Start date
DCTNstudentpilot1987
New Member
So basically, guys that get into the AF and become an F16 pilot will have a hard time switching to multi-aircraft to get the ME time required for the airlines by law? If so, that sucks for F16 and future F35 guys. I thought I read that the F35 would replace the F18/F16/F15 for everyone. I hope the FAA administrator allows F16/F35 guys to replace some of their time for multi-time so they can get hired on by the airlines. I am not sure if that is legal or not. Im sure if they tried that some P135 pilots will challenge it in court since it wouldnt be fair to them to say some multi-time can be substituted but not others.
I am interested to know how the FAA defines "difficult operational experience". That can mean a whole bunch of things.
jspeed87
Well-Known Member
It's not about the 1500 hours. Its about what happens during the 1500 hours.
Yeah exactly my point. I'm not applying to Cessna 172 airlines. 1500 hours spent in a GA aircraft but I want to be an airline pilot. Would you spend 2 years driving a taxi to be a truck driver? I love flying, but that's a lot of hours spent being a CFI, banner tow, paying your dues when really your just going to get trained to be an airline pilot even if you had 10,000 hours. :dunno:
SpiraMirabilis
Possible Subversive
I imagine there will be some sort of exemption for military guys, even single engine fighter types. Otherwise I see a lot of people making a point to become T-38 instructor pilots!
cmill
Cold Ass Honky
TUCKnTRUCK
That guy
You're not getting it. It doesn't matter what the type of airplane is. The first time you go," Oh crap" it shouldn't be with lots of people in the back.
1500 hours is nothing in the big picture. It's 1.5 years of instructing. Jumping straight to 121, you have no idea what you are missing. Seriuously, go rent an airplane and cross the country at 3-6000 ft agl. See the sights, go fly over Niagara Falls, Grand canyon, Mt. Rushmore, Get a tail wheel end. Do some mountain flying, try a float plane etc. GO HAVE FUN, because you won't once you get into a 121 gig.
Why does it seem like every new pilot assumes that the current guys in the airlines were "born" into it? Most all of us were not formed by some miracle into the right seat of a jet. We have all been though what you are currently doing, and feeling. Is it that hard to trust us, when we say it will do you good to go out and get the experience? Before you mention pay... your CFI pay will be darn near what the first year regional pay is... so it's a wash at first.
I was in an airplane crash long before I got to an airline. Is that some experience that I could have gotten here instead? I hope not. Did I learn from it? You bet I did. Have I transfered that learning to what I do now in a 121 cockpit? I 100% certainly do. Does it matter that It happened in a PA-23 and not a Q400? not at all.
Go have fun, and ALWAYS OBEY rule 32
Your first paragraph is spot on. 2007 was the exception, not the rule. Therfore, the rule was not needed.
Callador
New Member
I guess we will have to wait and see how much multi will be required. Right now the guys get the mil comp commercial single/multi engine land and then come back to do the ATP on the civilian side when they get the hours. Doing it is a Seneca (or some other regular twin) also gets rid of the centerline thrust restriction, if they have it.
As others have said, I'm sure they will create a way to help military pilots get their ATP's.
Bandit_Driver
Gold Member
People just don't get it and want everything handed to them.
Can someone explain to me how you teach someone in a 121 class room judgment and give them real world experience who has very little flight time. You just can't. I know you won't believe me or the others that have worked our way up into the airlines; but those years of being a CFII, freight dog, traffic watch pilot, banner pilot, etc teach you invaluable lessons and give you real world experience.
As other's have said, the first time you go 'oh expletive' shouldn't be with 70 pax on board.
You think it is bad for a pilot to have 1500 hours of experience before being allowed to fly pax that is nothing. Look at the hours of training doctors have to put in the beginning.
trafficinsight
Well-Known Member
although I'm in favor of most of the changes. I'm really not looking forward to the next bill that mandates some kind of FAA rule.
chuckles1225
Well-Known Member
To add to that...us younger pilots are all pretty lucky these days that the magic number to get a 121 FO job is only 1,500 hours. Ask any civilian-trained airline pilot over the age of 40 what their total time was when they got their first 121 job. Remember that regional airlines are a relatively new part of the industry.
For new pilots back in the 70s and 80s there were not even close to as many 121 FO jobs out there and the "experience building years" lasted considerably longer than the 1 or 2 years that pilots these days view as the norm. Back then the path to the airlines usually involved a few years as a CFI followed by another few years flying checks and even then you probably needed a good internal rec to even get looked at by a TWA or United.
I personally find it incredible that I started flying only 3.5 years ago and am now training for a CRJ job. That really isn't very long when you are talking about something as complex and challenging as aviation.
Callador
New Member
Very true. Once you get 1500 hours it changes from "Oh Expletive" to "Watch this"!!!
Seriously though, you are 100% correct. Judgment is something that isn't easy to teach. It usually takes experience to gain better judgment. It is hard to learn this sitting is a ground school where they insert the firehose into your mouth and turn it on. You are too busy trying to learn all sorts of other stuff!
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Hey, hotshot, did the thought ever occur to you that, since pretty much every air line pilot here agrees with the rule change, that maybe, just maybe, they know a bit more about it than someone who drives a C172 around the pattern? Learn some humility. You'll need it in the right seat of that airliner when you get there.
As long as we keep a Democratic Congress, there's nothing to worry about. ALPA-PAC works wonders on the Hill with the right people in office.
esa17
Well-Known Member
Because they bought that "pilot shortage" crap and simply aren't willing to put in the work. Anyone not flying a jet is looked down upon by most academies whose job is to sell the Catch Me If You Can dream of being an airline pilot. Initially I did too but then I discovered Rule 32. I've had SO much fun flying places and airplanes most scoff at and I consider that to be their loss. More fun for me.
Being a CFI isn't good enough for them, neither is towing rags or dropping meat missiles. It's seems to be a mixture of arrogance and SJS. They simply don't know what they don't know and what's worse, they don't care to learn. What could you possibly learn in 1500 hours that you can learn in 250? Experience is the thing you get just after you need it and it's very easy to come by at times.
Every stinkin day!
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
All this 'Rule 32' stuff prompted me to Google it- almost missed the Zombieland reference. Good stuff.
Variations: Internet Rule 32: Anything that can be said can be said with a picture.
Rule 32 at my work (seriously): The equal opportunity/sexual harassment rule. Ha!
Variations: Internet Rule 32: Anything that can be said can be said with a picture.
Rule 32 at my work (seriously): The equal opportunity/sexual harassment rule. Ha!
I think this new rule will finally create the pilot shortage that everyone has been talking about. The pipeline at schools are dried up. No one is coming into this career and those who want to, can't afford the training. Years ago a large percentage signed up dreaming of getting into a 121 with low time. Now with tougher requirements and low pay you will eliminate those from entering this career. The numbers are scary and FBO's are closing left and right. Once majors pluck away at the regional's its going to be tough to have a large pool of applicants in 3-5 years.
FAYEV
Well-Known Member
We're not all like that.
TUCKnTRUCK
That guy
Thats true, I shouldn't stereo type... as I was there once.
So many though, will take the advice from those who have done it, and throw it back in their face... for no good reason.
Trust me, I have no reason to lead people wrong...
Change the line you quoted to , why does it seem like so many new pilots....
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Probably because they know that it's gonna get harder over time, not easier. It's gotta be maddening to think just two years ago their senior classmen were going right to airline regionals and now they're being left in the dust.
Luckily I graduated in '03, not '01. I saw how crappy it had become and got used to it early so I shrugged off not having a job flying when I graduated. Found a CFI gig when I could, until then I dispatched and did anything that made me money. I think all you newbies better take a lesson, find something you can do in the meantime and CFI after work and on your off days. It'll be alright.