Troubled Freight Pilot

nmineau

nmineau

Well-Known Member
I am writing cause I am a little troubled at what a company is becoming. The company when I started was little heard of but had a very good rep from people who did hear of them. They were a never leave a pilot down or behind but now seem to think that they can duty people off at the FBO and call that your rest ( is that even legal, I know it is not right). Can anyone tell me if it is Legal and if your company tries to do the same and if/how they get away with it?
 
You have to have rest. The regulations don't say the company has to provide you a hotel room. As long as they're telling you "You are in rest for the next xyz horus", that is a legal rest period.

Rest has to be known, free from duty and free from the responsibility for duty should it arise.

If you know you're in rest, don't have to do anything for the company and don't have to jump up and head out if they call and say "hey, a trip just popped up", then you're in rest. Where, exactly, isn't specified in the regs.

Crappy, but legal...unfortunately.

FWIW, when I was based on a 4 day run in Columbus, I used to get my rest in the quiet room. I'd head to the gym, work out, shower, come back, sleep, get up, repeat, work, then do it all over again. I never left the building other than to workout and shower. Perfectly legal though. They didn't require me to do anything during my rest period and that's how I "chose" to spend it. Sometimes life just sucks.... :(

-mini
 
yeah, thats pretty crappy they dont give you anything during your layover... I hope its at least a decent FBO with a pilot lounge and sleep room.
 
As pointed out by Mini, this is normal. These companies operate on very thin margins and there is no way they can afford a hotel for you every day. Hopefully the FBO has a nice, quiet area and a crew car you can use from time to time. Be polite while you are there, don't abuse the privileges they provide (such as the crew car).
Now while you are on "rest" you can not be required to carry a pager, answer your phone, or do anything that requires any kind of duty with your company. I was fortunate. As with Mini I spent much of my time running, working out, sending out resumes, napping. One of my runs was to Brunswick, GA so I got to hang out on the beach all day if the weather was nice. The other stop I had was frequented by a bunch of old WWII pilots who usually took pity on me and took me to lunch somewhere. I also got to fly some nice airplanes in my time off.
Some day you'll back upon this time with... well, maybe not fondness, but a bit of nostalgia.
 
Call in fatigued because you couldn't get your proper rest at the FBO. A hotel room costs a lot less that missing the run or flying in a floater to cover it.
 
mogley68 said:
Call in fatigued because you couldn't get your proper rest at the FBO. A hotel room costs a lot less that missing the run or flying in a floater to cover it.
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...which the company would not have to worry about as they would fire him.
 
Like Mini said... it's legal and it sucks.
11 yrs ago my run was: leave Kansas City at 0600, fly a few hours, wind up in Dodge City, KS around 1000, sit/sleep(the "quiet room" was the unfinished basement at the fbo)/wander aimlessly till 1800, fly back, get home at 0000, surf the internet, stare at my sleeping G/F and be airborne again at 0600. :insane:

did it for almost 18 months.

my freight job sucked bigger than yours ;););)
 
spasekace said:
Like Mini said... it's legal and it sucks.
11 yrs ago my run was: leave Kansas City at 0600, fly a few hours, wind up in Dodge City, KS around 1000, sit/sleep(the "quiet room" was the unfinished basement at the fbo)/wander aimlessly till 1800, fly back, get home at 0000, surf the internet, stare at my sleeping G/F and be airborne again at 0600. :insane:

did it for almost 18 months.

my freight job sucked bigger than yours ;););)
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How is that legal? Doesn't 135 require 10 hrs of rest?
 
mogley68 said:
Then find a better company that actually takes care of their pilots.
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Good luck finding a company in the small freight/check hauling business that makes enough money to put up their pilots in hotel rooms for 8-10 hours a day. I don't know of any companys that do this. Even the larger ones such as Flight Express do not do this... or at least they did not when I was in the business.
 
spasekace said:
Like Mini said... it's legal and it sucks.
11 yrs ago my run was: leave Kansas City at 0600, fly a few hours, wind up in Dodge City, KS around 1000, sit/sleep(the "quiet room" was the unfinished basement at the fbo)/wander aimlessly till 1800, fly back, get home at 0000, surf the internet, stare at my sleeping G/F and be airborne again at 0600. :insane:

did it for almost 18 months.

my freight job sucked bigger than yours ;););)
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Sounds like my job but you probably had more challenging weather. The hours were long, the equipment suspect, but at least the pay sucked.
 
aloft said:
How is that legal? Doesn't 135 require 10 hrs of rest?
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My bad math... I left Dodge City 9 hrs after landing= normal rest. i could reduce to 8hrs but would then have needed a 10 hr extended rest the next day.

They couldn't care less where i got my rest as long as i was legal and flying.
 
Blackhawk said:
Sounds like my job but you probably had more challenging weather. The hours were long, the equipment suspect, but at least the pay sucked.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but we are talking about actual "rest" away from the op's home base. If we are talking about a layover untill the next leg I was thinking something different.

In the "rest" case all of the companies that I have flown for and most of the others that I have heard of will get you a hotel and per diem for actual "rest" away from base.

If we are talking about a layover then you are right and you probably won't get a hotel.
 
Blackhawk said:
Sounds like my job but you probably had more challenging weather. The hours were long, the equipment suspect, but at least the pay sucked.
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Ahhh... to be under worked and over paid... it's a glorious freight dog life.

on a more serious note, i'm on the falcon 20 now (flying freight of course) and we get 10 hrs rest that starts when we get to the hotel room.:clap:
 
mogley68 said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but we are talking about actual "rest" away from the op's home base. If we are talking about a layover untill the next leg I was thinking something different.

In the "rest" case all of the companies that I have flown for and most of the others that I have heard of will get you a hotel and per diem for actual "rest" away from base.

If we are talking about a layover then you are right and you probably won't get a hotel.
Click to expand...

Please correct me if I'M wrong, the way I understand it rest is free from duty, flying, phone calls etc... basically i don't exist for 8,9,10, 12 hrs (as the case may be) and is required every 24 hrs in between flying. I sometimes go on duty, fly an hour, and wait 6 hrs for the freight to show up(hurry up n wait haha), then fly again etc... that 6 hours is spent at an fbo, cargo ramp, back of the plane etc and is not rest. when i'm done i'm on rest including when that trip ends at home base; my phone is off for 10 hrs. rest doesn't care if you're home or on the road.
Layover is a generic term for sitting around somewhere waiting for your next trip. 1hr-10days whatever.

getting a hotel is up to the employer. if you're scheduled to leave in 9 hrs maybe no hotel. if you land and you have no idea when you're leaving-probably a hotel... up to the employer. although i doubt most fbo's would welcome you back after staying in their lounge 4 days.

just my understanding- i could easily be waaaay off.
 
mogley68 said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but we are talking about actual "rest" away from the op's home base. If we are talking about a layover untill the next leg I was thinking something different.

In the "rest" case all of the companies that I have flown for and most of the others that I have heard of will get you a hotel and per diem for actual "rest" away from base.

If we are talking about a layover then you are right and you probably won't get a hotel.
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The only time I got a hotel room was when weather was really bad and I had to divert somewhere and that was only because my employers were good people. Normally my rest at the outstations was what the others in this business described- rest in an FBO. Now the larger 135 ops and 121, that's a different animal.
 
spasekace said:
Ahhh... to be under worked and over paid... it's a glorious freight dog life.

on a more serious note, i'm on the falcon 20 now (flying freight of course) and we get 10 hrs rest that starts when we get to the hotel room.:clap:
Click to expand...

Rest at my airline began 30 minutes after we blocked in. Got to be interesting when they had to drive us 2 hours to a hotel and called it "rest". FAA threw the BS flag on that one. They would not define when our rest began, but said a two hour cab drive was not "local in nature" so our rest would not begin, in that case, until we got to our hotel.
 
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