Troubled Freight Pilot

spasekace said:
Please correct me if I'M wrong, the way I understand it rest is free from duty, flying, phone calls etc... basically i don't exist for 8,9,10, 12 hrs (as the case may be) and is required every 24 hrs in between flying. I sometimes go on duty, fly an hour, and wait 6 hrs for the freight to show up(hurry up n wait haha), then fly again etc... that 6 hours is spent at an fbo, cargo ramp, back of the plane etc and is not rest. when i'm done i'm on rest including when that trip ends at home base; my phone is off for 10 hrs. rest doesn't care if you're home or on the road.
Layover is a generic term for sitting around somewhere waiting for your next trip. 1hr-10days whatever.

getting a hotel is up to the employer. if you're scheduled to leave in 9 hrs maybe no hotel. if you land and you have no idea when you're leaving-probably a hotel... up to the employer. although i doubt most fbo's would welcome you back after staying in their lounge 4 days.

just my understanding- i could easily be waaaay off.
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I wasn't asking for a clarification of what the legal definition of rest is. I wanted clarification if the op's company was making him count the time he spent between flights (if it was long enough to be considered rest) as rest.

Say UPS or Fedex feeders opps - The time between their first leg at night and their second and last leg in the morning. If that time is long enough to be used as legal rest and they are making him take it as rest they should be getting him a hotel or company apartment to get it at as ups and fedex feeders do.

I was using the term layover for a period of time in hours.
 
Well I'll chime in here. Here is how my run goes...

On duty 1815...I fly across oklahoma and south and hit OKC at around 2230( on a good day and on my 4th landing), I go to the FBO (Found out tonight they built a new one and oh yeah, the Pilots lounge...NO FLIPPING COUCH!), Sleep at the FBO from around 1130 (I have to wind down) to 0450. Wake up, pick up the sleeping bag and walk out to the airplane (5 min walk) untie the airplane and all that jazz. On the UPS ramp at 0530. Loaded up by 0645. Again across Oklahoma and off duty by 0900. I am 15 mins shy of a 15 hour duty day....EVERYDAY. Rest my 9 hours and then back to work.

Is it right? nah, I don't think so, but hey I'm flying in my home state and NO ONE in my company wants my run..haha. Is it legal? YUP. END 15 HOUR DUTY DAYS! HA
 
avi8tor1983 said:
Well I'll chime in here. Here is how my run goes...

On duty 1815...I fly across oklahoma and south and hit OKC at around 2230( on a good day and on my 4th landing), I go to the FBO (Found out tonight they built a new one and oh yeah, the Pilots lounge...NO FLIPPING COUCH!), Sleep at the FBO from around 1130 (I have to wind down) to 0450. Wake up, pick up the sleeping bag and walk out to the airplane (5 min walk) untie the airplane and all that jazz. On the UPS ramp at 0530. Loaded up by 0645. Again across Oklahoma and off duty by 0900. I am 15 mins shy of a 15 hour duty day....EVERYDAY. Rest my 9 hours and then back to work.

Is it right? nah, I don't think so, but hey I'm flying in my home state and NO ONE in my company wants my run..haha. Is it legal? YUP. END 15 HOUR DUTY DAYS! HA
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That would be the worst run in my company if we had it! I haven't seen anything near that bad over here. 12hr duty days yes! 15hr duty days? No! The duty times cut too close. If the freights late you'd have to go into reduced rest and it throws everything out of wack. Heck if you wouldn't to take a day off, all it would take is a power reduction in cruise or a "headwind".:crazy:
 
mogley68 said:
In the "rest" case all of the companies that I have flown for and most of the others that I have heard of will get you a hotel and per diem for actual "rest" away from base.
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When I was covering a run out of base, if I came up to a required rest period, I was always given a hotel room. Always.

Not all companies are like that, though.

KLB said:
Heck if you wouldn't to take a day off, all it would take is a power reduction in cruise or a "headwind".:crazy:
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I like the way this guy thinks!

...of course, that's just for you guys working under the "scheduled" 135 regs. I never had the privilege of being subjected to reduced rest per the scheduled regs. That would definitely suck.

Unscheduled ftw.

-mini
 
Blackhawk said:
Good luck finding a company in the small freight/check hauling business that makes enough money to put up their pilots in hotel rooms for 8-10 hours a day. I don't know of any companys that do this. Even the larger ones such as Flight Express do not do this... or at least they did not when I was in the business.
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Mine does. We either have apartments everywhere we go or a hotel room.

This holds true both for runs where we're off-duty at the outstation and runs where we're only there for 6-7 hours.

Now, they're not particularly fancy apartments but a few of them are better than an FBO couch. A few aren't. :-)

Incredibly, we also have crew cars at each outstation. They're not very fancy either, but they get you around.

It makes life so much easier to have a car, even a ratty one, and place to get away from the airport when you've got 7 hours to kill out in one of the Dakotas.

And we are the definition of a small check/freight hauler. I mean, like, really small.

I'm a lucky pilot, that's for sure.
 
Wow. I had it easy when I was 135. The last one I had was 2000-0400 IXD-MDW-IXD. Maybe the occasional stop in IND or MKE, but wouldn't extend my duty any. I guess senority rules. I did have a run back in the day when i was a pup that would push close to 12 hrs when that was our limit. I think airnet has 14 duty days allowed now.
 
ackeight said:
Wow. I had it easy when I was 135. The last one I had was 2000-0400 IXD-MDW-IXD. Maybe the occasional stop in IND or MKE, but wouldn't extend my duty any. I guess senority rules. I did have a run back in the day when i was a pup that would push close to 12 hrs when that was our limit. I think airnet has 14 duty days allowed now.
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As long as I was there, 14 hours was "allowed" (legally), but you had to check in with the CPO for anything over 12.

...and that IXD run was fantastic. I used to love covering the IXD stuff. Even when I had to stop in MKC and CPS. The worst part of that crap was dealing with the friendlies at Atlantic.

-mini
 
minitour said:
As long as I was there, 14 hours was "allowed" (legally), but you had to check in with the CPO for anything over 12.

...and that IXD run was fantastic. I used to love covering the IXD stuff. Even when I had to stop in MKC and CPS. The worst part of that crap was dealing with the friendlies at Atlantic.

-mini
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Meh I have bad memory to remember if that was the deal. I know that in dallas one time I had to hussle back to beat the 14hr mark by 4 minutes. I heard it was a hefty fine if I didn't.
 
KLB said:
That would be the worst run in my company if we had it! I haven't seen anything near that bad over here. 12hr duty days yes! 15hr duty days? No! The duty times cut too close. If the freights late you'd have to go into reduced rest and it throws everything out of wack. Heck if you wouldn't to take a day off, all it would take is a power reduction in cruise or a "headwind".:crazy:
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That run used to be rather desirable (at least IMHO), because it added on a flight to DFW after OKC. That made the flight time such that you couldn't legally do it all month, you'd run out of flight time... so it used to be 1 week on 1 week off.
 
Blackhawk said:
Good luck finding a company in the small freight/check hauling business that makes enough money to put up their pilots in hotel rooms for 8-10 hours a day. I don't know of any companys that do this. Even the larger ones such as Flight Express do not do this... or at least they did not when I was in the business.
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Subair put me up in a (nice) hotel every day. That run sucked, but they were good people to work for. They even worked it out to pay for the room over the weekend so I could leave my stuff there. You'll never get any more than you expect.
 
averyrm said:
Also, this week I have two hotel rooms at the same time.
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I've had that at this "operator" (boy is that a loose interpretation of that word), but that's only because they don't listen...so we'll extend our rooms and then they'll have us reposition empty five minutes down the coast to be in position for a 4pm departure the next day.

I'll take double the double-points, but God do I miss freight...:(

-mini
 
Worst thing for me was 52 hours of flying in 1 week. Now I'm lucky to do anything more then 6 hours block a week.
 
on the weeks i fly the checks over here i duty on at 3pm and duty out at 800pm. If WX comes in and i think i cant get back to the base, boss gives me the prerogative of getting a hotel room. Last time it happened i stayed at the hilton. (Justified it because they had shuttle service and a bar.) Milk run compared to other stuff.
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
That run used to be rather desirable (at least IMHO), because it added on a flight to DFW after OKC. That made the flight time such that you couldn't legally do it all month, you'd run out of flight time... so it used to be 1 week on 1 week off.
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I wish it were still that way honestly. I don't know what I'd do with a week off? I feel sorry for the guy who has to cover my run when my little girl is born haha. Well just a little. The FBO in OKC built a new building, new couches that are NOT very nice to sleep on unless you have a pillow and a sleeping bag. So you might wanna let all the other STBY pilots know. Also I haven't had GPS for a month, if you don't bring a hand held (I don't have one) It can be a challenge unless you know where everything is. Oh and the new FBO, 1/4 mile walk from where you have to tie down the airplane! So much for sleeping til 515 to be on the ramp at 530, now i'm up and out the door by 505.
 
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